Thread: Jiffy Pop FAQ
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-09-2011, 05:43 PM
Well, you're not going to like this response but here goes. To start I'm going to point out that we're not dealing with an "either/or" situation where "either" one of my proposals go live "or" they add PVE content to the KDF. They will continue to add PVE content to the KDF at their current pace regardless so when you phrase your reply in the terms of 'this is no substitute for PVE content' you leave me to wonder if you've missed the point.

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Originally Posted by Katic View Post
I completely agree that lack of leveling content is a problem. However, exclusive assets are beneficial, not problematic. Every exclusive feature, ship, trait, or mission the KDF has is one more thing weighing down the scale in the KDFs favor, adding the same things to both sides of the scale only preserves the current imbalance, doing nothing to encourage a Fed to come over to the KDF.
I think you missed my point. To phrase it another way. The gaping void that is KDF leveling content is a HUGE disadvantage to any new player, which makes it the HUGE draw back to our ability to grow a population. Exclusive assets are a benefit to our ability to grow a population. So far we are in agreement.

Here's the point I make. Our exclusive assets are not awesome enough to counter the burden of leveling without content. Maybe they were before the Defiant-R and Galaxy-X but now, today, no contest and you need only look at our population to realize this. This proposal allows us to trade the small benefit we receive from exclusive assets for a solution to the larger problem our faction faces while still keeping those exclusive benefits largely exclusive at end game.

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I see this as an avoidance of a problem rather than a true solution. The faction swapping proposal (which admittedly has high costs) is more likely, I believe, to result in temporary KDF population jumps, not a significant rise in permanent (as permanent as anything is in a Video Game) KDF population.
Good catch. Yes, this is an end run, or dodge, of a significant game problem while that significant game problem is straightened out. You don't believe it would lead to permanent population gains in the KDF, okay, since it's hypothetical you're welcome to believe what you want, but when I said I believed that it would I provided at least two and a half reasons why it would.

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Herein lies a distinct difference in our viewpoint, KDF proposals which overtly benefit the Feds more than they will benefit the KDF worsens the current imbalance, something I do not and cannot accept. If I am to support any proposal related to the KDF in this game it must reduce the imbalance between the Factions, not worsen it.
That's an odd point of view because, looking at the game as it is, I don't believe the current imbalance can be worsened. Again, look at the posters on my "scrap the faction" thread. There was only one person who had an overall positive view of a forced 'faction merge' and he appeared to play largely on the Federation side. Current Klingon players won't be leaving over this. Now consider new players, perhaps they'd never find a reason to experiment with the KDF if options were available on both sides, but as things are right now, most new players who 'experiment' with the KDF don't get past Lieutenant Commander.

This opens up a way for an end game player to experiment with the KDF without having to level a KDF character.

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It's my belief that prospective players are more likely to buy the game and remain subbed if they have two full Factions of content, Two distinct and different cultures to explore. Continuing a path of imbalance only hurts the games prospects with such players, who I believe are likely to outnumber prospective players with a Fed-only mentality.
I agree, but since we don't have a game with two full factions of content and, unfortunately, are not likely to have a game with two full factions of content any time soon what do you think about this proposal in the mean time? This goes back to how I opened, it's not an either/or situation.

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In all honesty, I would rather put up with the cloak bug and suicidal fighters for another two years if it meant exclusive leveling KDF PvE, which I believe is a bigger problem than any bug or fighter AI issues. Especially when one realizes that the bug-hunters at Cryptic are entirely different people then the content developers. In light of this, we could have both, if we raise the priority of the KDF itself in the eyes of the devs. Something which has been repeatedly shown to be tied to our population.
Again, this is not an either/or situation. The thing I'd prefer most in this game would be engaging end game content, but the second thing I'd be happy to see will be KDF PvE leveling content. But now what do you think of this proposal in the meantime?

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Quite true, which is why I am passionately in favor of more unique assets rather than fewer. It's sort of cost-benefit analysis. "Am I willing to put up with a leveling grind for 10 unique assets? 20? What about 30? 40?" The more unique assets the KDF has, the more the cost-benefit analysis comes out in the KDFs favor.
Looking at this pragmatically I don't think that's ever going to happen. Cost-benefit analysis on Cryptic's end never comes out in the KDFs favor and the time and effort cost in conceptualizing, balancing, and approval for truly unique ideas is such that our meager 12% of the population will never be enough of a benefit to justify.

In essence, a lot of your ideas are good and I like them. If this were a different game or a different time I might even be suggesting things to improve the game that you like. But while we are twelve percent of the population you can be sure the only major initiatives in game play that benefit us will be ones that benefit Starfleet too.

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Originally Posted by MinosOne
I applaud your attempts to try to think of solutions for the Klingon Empire content problem. However, I don't think your proposal really helps the Klingon Empire attain more Klingon content. That is what the Klingon faction needs (at least in my opinion). I don't foresee Federation Players volunteering to switch to a faction with less content. Sure, some might do it for the sake of something different, but given the option, I think many that were really interested would just roll a Klingon character and save themselves 500 emblems, especially if they planned on switching back.
All right, first as explained above, any effect this proposal has on generating content will happen later and only by increasing the Klingon population. If the Klingon population was larger than 12% of the total, we would be receiving something closer to equal development time.

Now, for your other points, at end game the Klingon faction has MORE content, by a mission or two. At end game there's not really any disparity. So, again, any problems we face as a faction, at end game, are the results of population. In fact, as a faction, our problem has always been leveling content. The long grind to Lieutenant General is what's killing us and when someone complains about lack of Klingon content, they're pretty much complaining about having to run Breen and Romulan reruns over and over again because it's the best way to get experience without going insane from monotony.

I explain this so you can understand when I say I'm pretty sure you're wrong. I think there may be many who are really interested in Klingons who'd be happier spending 500 emblems, or cryptic points, on a max or near max character rather than engaging in the long grind up the Klingon ranks.

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You somewhat concede that this isn't something that most Klingons are going to do. If this is something that won't be beneficial to the majority of the faction, I can't see why it would be implemented as a measure to help the Klingons. I'd prefer the Devs spent the time that it'd take to implement this to work on other content for Klingons, or failing that, do something both factions can enjoy.
I don't recall conceding this, unless you mean where I pointed out that most of our remaining Klingons wouldn't leave for Starfleet. How you take that to mean it's not something that will benefit Klingon's I do not know. This proposal is to increase Klingon faction population by allowing immigration from the more populous and easy to level in UFP to the equally desirable but hard to reach Klingon end game. This is definitely beneficial to the faction and likely beneficial to the game as a whole.

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Allowing players to flip back and forth between the factions doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I realize there is a high cost associated with the proposal, but I can't see the Klingons allowing traitors to return to the Empire after defecting and engaging in war against them.
While I understand there may be a certain inability to suspend your disbelief I find myself not compelled by the 'it's not reasonable' argument and I will tell you why. While I was a Lieutenant, I blew up three fleets worth of Federation vessels sneaking through the Kahless Expanse. Now given the average resource investment and crew size of a Starfleet vessel, the UFP should be in a state of financial ruin and there should be entire planets devoid of population. It's an MMO, and you don't always get the luxury of deciding which unrealistic game play mechanics the game introduces to be successful in the medium.

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I don't know that I would quit over this proposal should it go live, but I don't care for it. You may be limiting the amount of actual defections with the associated cost, but you are still stripping the Klingons further of what little uniqueness they have left (yes, this is a homogenization argument). If it came up for a vote, I'd vote against it. If it was put into the game, I might stick around to see what the impact is, but if it became at all commonplace, I wouldn't hesitate to leave.
You've also only really mentioned the homogenization aspect of the proposal. Perhaps the fault is mine by not clearly pointing out that what highly expensive and limited 'homogenization' this allows is ancillary.



Okay, for both of you. Lets reconsider the proposal with this adjustment. When your character 'faction switches' you lose your ship, and uniform. Your quest completion ends you in the throne room of Jem'pok or the office of Admiral Whats-His-Face and they give you a 'ship token' that is level appropriate. What problems or benefits would you foresee from this version?