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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 12
07-18-2011, 12:51 AM
Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
You also fail to remember that Tier 3 boff abilities outside your main profession have to be bought from the exchange or trained by others, meaning they won't be everywhere.
I have not failed to remember anything, do you honestly not have a friend (or friends) in game who could either train any skill for you or serve as middle-man while you trade a BO to an alt for appropriate training?

Profession based top-tier skills are everywhere for a very good reason, and there is no excuse for not having the best abilities for the appropriate ships since they implemented BO trading over a year ago.

Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
"No thanks" is a meaningless comment. Please think for a little while and come back with an actual criticism.

Come back with a valid criticism. Stop using the words "no thanks" because they have no value in any discussion anywhere.

So I gather that your main criticism is that all the standard T5 ships would be overpowered. You haven't really explained how or why they would be. And even if they were, doesn't the fact that you say they'd all be equally overpowered mean that they might just be balanced with each other?
Ok, for starters you mention nothing about Klingon ships but lets ignore that for now.

Let's say that Cryptic does as you request, and each ship has two Lt. Cmdr (assuming that's what you're going for given that you didn't say it wasn't while you were busy saying that I wasn't making my arguments) slots for their given role/purpose.
--For the Cruisers-classes that translates to Star Cruiser class ships becoming super tanks, Assault Cruisers gaining bust on top of their tanks, and the Exploration-Cruiser getting shafted and left behind by all but those who play for the love of the class.
--For the Science-classes that means that the DSSV becomes the best of the Sci-healers and a potentially vicious combatant, the LRSV (Intrepid) goes the way of the Galaxy, and the RSV becomes the single meanest ship in the game during group fighting and protracted combat.
--For the Escorts that translates into both the Adv. gaining a nasty tank or a PSW, etc (we see it already with the MVAM) to go with the full punching power of a standard escort; the Fleet Escort would also gain a serious tank and things like EWP; the only appeal of the Defiant would then be the cloak.

So how would this play out in game when they faced off?
--Star Cruisers and Exploration Cruisers would not be capable of killing any half-decent players on their own; their fire support might tip the balance but along they would simply not posses the needed buffs to punch through the tanks; on the flip side any half decent Star Cruiser pilot would basically never die. This would mean that Assault Cruisers and Excelsiors would be the only cruisers with a shot at killing things due to the potential of utilizing burst power to overwhelm a player's defenses.
--Escorts would be relegated to burst builds (far more so than now) because they would have to quickly overwhelm Cruiser defenses or they would be drawn into a stalemate where they would not likely die to the cruiser, but without an alpha strike they wouldn't punch through one either. Then with Science ships, they would handily beat intrepids, and be in stand-offs with the DSSVs; it would be more tricky with the RSV as it would posses the buff power, short-term tank, and science powers to seriously the escort.
--With Science ships, as I said above, the DSSV would have access to E-Team 3 or EWP 1 (among other things) to go with a full science load, meaning that it would be a BEAST of a healer and group support package all rolled into one; it wouldn't be able to kill much on it's own, but then again that wouldn't be what people used it for anyway. The RSV would be a match changer as it would be the only ship that could realistically take on any escort or science ship with a real chance of winning due to the science combined with the tactical buffs (a tac in a RSV would become a vicious combo do to the captain-profession skills).

Basically, it would be over quickly, or not over at all.....

Now if you did NOT mean to suggest that there would be two Lt. Cmdr, and that the Lt. Cmdr station was basically being moved around then things would be more reasonable, but still thrown out of whack.
-The Assault Cruiser would be just like the Excelsior, except it would lose the tank appeal vs. the turn rate (I need to look, I can't remember the Excelsior's turn rate off the top of my head). The Star Cruiser would lose burst healing/tanking power; and the exploration cruiser would probably become more popular for healers.
-The Escorts would suffer a dps hit across the board in favor of tanking (Defiant excluded)
-The RSVs would lose strength of Science, and therefore become less potent as they need their sci powers to make up the difference of only having six weapon slots.

I'm sorry dude but the 2-Lt. Cmdr idea is about as bad as having 2 Cmdr stations for the T5 (which was tried and quickly changed when the Retrofits were in testing on Tribble, the original version of the Intrepid had 2 Cmdr science slots and was unstoppable). Moving the Lt. Cmdr slot around is, as I said, more reasonable but it still poses problems that would need to be worked out; it's not perfect but it's still much more reasonable.

Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
This is pure nonsense. How do universal ensigns alter the design purposes of the retrofit ships? Explain how. How does it change the reason to use the retrofit ships? You have not made any sense whatsoever.
Dude you've been around these forums for as long as I have, and that means you've played the game for that long; how could you not have realized that there is a real difference in the ships from where the ensign slot is that effects how you play the ship; they fill a role of focus.

Now yes, everything would be changed if your idea were to be implemented, but tell me what would be the appeal of a ship with a universal ensign slot vs. a ship with two-Lt. Cmdr slots (or a heavier design focus)?

Originally Posted by Forgotten-Nemesis View Post
One extra beam array? Are you joking? Please tell me you're joking because nobody with a basic grasp of space combat would claim an extra weapon slot would unbalance the whole game "drastically".
Ok, mind that the escort and the raptor and the Kar'fi all have 7 slots, and I know that you're thinking that they're able to run dual-cannons and w/e, but that doesn't matter. The fact is that with a 7th weapon slot on a Nebula, a cannon-heavy build becomes VERY viable and a tactical officer in a Nebula would have a nasty alpha strike and the universal Lt. would greatly help any profession. Even if you didn't go heavy with the single-cannons then you'd still have enough beams for a mean broadside (which is how cruisers with eight slots do their heavy damage).

Again, if your changes went in then things would need to change to keep the Nebula viable, but that would not be the way.