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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 28
08-29-2011, 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
Is this a troll post?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
There is so much wrong with half of what you said, I don't have time to argue ALL of your points, but I will say this: I do consider myself an excellent escort pilot, while maybe not the BEST escort pilot, I am regarded as one of the best
If you were one of the best:
  • You would be posting this in the PvP forums
  • I would know who you are
  • You would know who I am
  • You wouldn't say "I'm not an expert"

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
First, the negligble gains from having 3x turrets in the back instead of 2x + Tricobalt are completely overshadowed by the extra power drain from firing 7 weapons instead of 6 fore.
Wrong, especially in conjunction with Rapid Fire. APO3 vs. APO1 takes my DHCs from 2000 damage all the way to 2087, which is what I would call negligible


Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
The added ability to beat up a shield facing while your opponent absorbs it using Tactical Team, then fly by and drop a Trico on his now unshielded FRONT facing (assuming you were shooting his rear) is definitely worth the loss of the ~200 dps you lose by not taking the turret, plus its so much fun to decisively end engagements this way.
Well, that 200 number is easily dispelled with Nagorak's DPS calculator, which takes drain into account. The latest version (that still works) gives a ~550 DPS difference between 2 and 3 turrets using 3 DHCs. That's an extremely low ball figure since it assumes125 weapons power and not specing. Over-capping, EPS consoles, spec, and certain keybinds that let you control when you fire front and rear weapons will all increase that number significantly.

As far as trics go, sure you can fly by an enemy and try to deliver one from your butt, but that's prone to fail (especially if even one person on the other side is using FAW) and if it does fail you significantly gimp your damage. In any case you would use tricobalt torpedos for such a maneuver. In your "Cannotorpedosaurus" build you are using a mine, which take longer to activate and doesn't travel as fast. You are aren't just using the wrong tactic, you're telling people to use that wrong tactic the wrong way!

That being said, the butt tric is fun. I use one on all of my science vessels, where losing some forward DPS doesn't matter much. Doing it on an escort is questionable, but doing it with mines instead of torpedoes is about the wrongest thing you can possibly do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
FAW is for clearing spam, not for practical use
If you're trying to clear spam with an escort you're doing it incredibly wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
Other people like to use Beam Target Subsystems with a beam in the rear; I don't per se, but other's do, that's why these builds are included.
I know of a couple competent players who use BTxS from a rear beam. I don't really agree with it, but those two players are seasoned PvPers. Anyone who needs a how-to guide for playing escort is going to get royally screwed up trying to use that tactic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
for the moment with my build APO3 fits the bill more, as its immunity, speed boost, and damage boost are very nice, AND they apply to shield damage as well, not just to hull resistance as beta does. In addition, all of the movement buffs and defense buffs from Omega are higher from Omega3 then Omega1, so there are tons of reasons to use Omega3 over Omega1 when all Beta3 does is a glorified FoMM, which is useful if your target is an idiot and doesn't balance shields.
Actually, all of the movement buffs cap off at 144%, so both APO1 and APO3 are the exact same in that regard. Here's what you get from taking APO3 vs. APO1
  • An extra "20%" all damage strength. You'll only get the full 20% on certain science skills. For your weapons boost, that number seems to apply loosely to your weapon's base damage, so 20% actually becomes ~4.35% overall. This is negligible compared to ABP3 and CRF3.
  • Damage resistance goes from 18% to 30%, or an extra 12% damage resistance. Given the diminishing returns in resistance ratings, this number is probably negligible unless your resistance rating is very close to 0 in the first place.
  • Defense rating goes from 18% to 30%, which is actually significant

So the only real significant difference between APO1 and APO3 is the defense rating. The movement buff is the same, the resistance increase is small, and the damage increase is significantly lower than other Cmdr. level skills. Overall, it's not worth taking if your focus is on doing damage, which it should be if you are doing it right.

Beta also has it's disadvantages, especially with the number of tactical teams flying around. If your goal is to deliver a massive alpha strike which quickly kills an opponent (such as your 2xBO example), then you should still definitely take a beta.

For example, I have a science alpha strike BoP with 2xBO and a shockwave. I use a beta 3 because the chances of a tac team finding it's way to my target during my kill window is minuscule. On a conventional set up with 3xDHCs I might take a low level beta (I would take an APO level 1 before taking a beta though), and I would slot in a CRF3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadP1r4te View Post
come across like an arrogant self-proclaimed "Expert who feels the need to correct me."
Most PvPers would probably agree with you that I can be arrogant, but you're still spreading wrong information. Doing so from a supposed position of authority (and you're giving mixed signals on this... do you consider yourself "not an expert", or do you consider yourself one of the best escort pilots in the game?!) is also a form of arrogance.