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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 22
11-11-2011, 09:39 PM
Originally Posted by sharkball View Post
Still... the joined trill get alot more bonus DPS than before...
So to test that I took a couple characters I have on Tribble and took a look at the difference.

MK XI white Dual Phaser Bank on VA Trill, fully specced in weapon training and energy weapons, 124 weapon power and no tac consoles.

@ 124 power 958 damage (766 DPS)

MK XI white Dual Disruptor bank on LTG Orion, fully specced in weapon training and energy weapons, 125 and 122 weapon power (close as I could get) and no tac consoles.

@ 125 power 945 damage (756 DPS)
@ 122 power 925 damage (740 DPS)

So yeah I'm not really seeing "alot more bonus DPS" with the only difference between the two characters being 1-2 points of power and the joined trill trait. You're looking at the equivalent of about 3 points of power difference. Is it nice? Sure, but it isn't a lot more.

Originally Posted by Naevius
People keep forgetting that the remaining skills affect more things AND that a +3 is the equivalent of a +6 under the old system.
I listed 31 abilities which the Trill trait affects on Holodeck. There are only 7 abilities the same trait now affects on Tribble, not counting the tactical abilities which didn't change. Seven is not greater than thirty-one. The tier 1 skills no longer affect every ability that pulls from the tree, they affect far less than they used to on Holodeck.

As for +3 = +6 that is not true at all. I have a hard time knowing what the real ratio is, since it appears to be very inconsistent, or at least they changed more variables than just the skills.

So let me illustrate this using a character without any traits affecting science skills.

On Tribble, CPB 3 with no ranks in particle generators, no deflector or consoles, gives me damage of 2584 @ 124 aux. Adding in my Borg deflector I get +15 to particle generators. This gives me 3182 damage.

Now fully speccing for particle generators I get +33, and no deflector gives me 3863 damage. Putting the deflector in gives me 4464 damage.

So that is with +48 total modifier, and the difference between skilled and unskilled is 1880.

Now on Redshirt, CPB 3 with no ranks in any science tree skill, and no deflector or consoles, CPB 3 gives me 2346 damage @124 aux. With the Borg deflector giving 33 sensors and puts aux at 125 power, I now get 2744 damage.

Fully specced for Starship operations, sensors, and astrometrics with no deflector I get 3519 damage @124 power. With borg deflector I get 3922 damage.

So we have a smaller difference of 1576, and a +133 skill modifier difference, and it also has a lower minimum.

What does that mean? It means if nothing else has changed (and I doubt it highly) the skill modifier difference is about 3.3 holodeck skill points = 1 tribble skill point. Problem is, that isn't quite accurate. CPB has a significantly higher potential on Tribble.

It also doesn't seem to be agreed on at all, afterall if someone says 3 on tribble = 6 on holodeck, thats 2:1 not 3.3:1. And when the damage values I posted earlier show a 5% increase compared to a 3.5% increase for the same value, that says it is more of a 1.4:1 ratio. It's really hard to figure out what is going on, or what is supposed to be going on when it doesn't seem to be consistent across all areas.

For another comparison, my Viral Matrix 3 on Holodeck gives me 11s disable with no consoles, just deflector and skill points. Unskilled it is 8s. On Tribble, fully speccing for it and using the same deflector gives me only 10s, from the same 8s unskilled. A net loss of 1 second, which is a major hit considering I only gained 3 seconds from fully skilling it on Holodeck. That puts the skills at a 2.6:1 ratio.

What is really going on? Only the Dev's know for sure, but it is quite clear the Joined Trill trait was very much nerfed, aside from damage which was slightly buffed. Things are all over the place in the new skill system, but that doesn't mean it should stay that way, especially with the heavy nerfs to traits.

Edit: fixed VM math.