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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-14-2011, 01:03 PM
Originally Posted by UpsilonStation
First let me nip some responses in the bud...YES I KNOW this is a game. But there is a difference between suspension of disbelief for fantasy/imaginary elements of the game and ignoring logic, reason, and knowledge of elements of the game.

So STO did it with the new skill system gave in to all the players who were crying about "My captain can't fly every type of every ship at maximum level and effectiveness". "I cant max level every skill."

The new skill system has two major faults

1)with the ship abilities in space: that essentially all the ships regardless of type, function and design are all actually the same and people "captaining" them would be equally good at them all. This is like saying because you got your drivers license you could also drive a bus, a tractor trailer, or a formula 1 race car as well as you drive your civic. This is simply illogical and completely false. Yes the basic principles for driving all the vehicles are the same. But to truly excel at driving each/any of them would take knowledge and experience and time learning about that specific vehicle. Someone who has a pilots license for flying normal civilian aircraft, like Cessna and Piper Cubs, is not automatically an expert pilot of commercial airliners or fighter jets. Again it would require specific knowledge, training, and experience with each type of aircraft.(indeed the FAA requires separate certifications for some dozen different types of aircraft.) The reason is simple the all the different types of vehicles are designed differently for different purposes and using different unique systems that are not all equal one to the other.

2)with the new space abilities, it seems that the skills are now simply lumped together based on their intended effect; and here again, all skills are assumed to be the same and one equivalent to any and all others. Simply preposterous. For instance, if your goal is to make a fire, just because you can strike a match, or flic your Bic does not mean you are equally capable of starting a fire using any known method (like using a fire bow, or flint and steel, or a battery and some steel wool.) The procedures and methodologies are vastly different and proficiency with one method does not grant proficiency in any other method; let alone them all.

A more specific game example: the new flow capacitors skill. Which now covers both shield drain abilities and energy drain abilities, in and of themselves two completely different systems but anyway...lets look at draining power from a ship. There are probably dozens of ways to drain power from an "electrical" system. One might be able to surround that system with an ion cloud of oppositely charged particles which would attract the particles in the system to bond with them thereby removing them from the system...or maybe a simple strong magnetic field of opposite polarity would be sufficient...or maybe simply increasing the resistance of the components of the system itself so that more energy is actually lost as it moves through the system would work...or...well you can see there are several different methods that might work and the procedures, methodologies, knowledge, and skill to create one of these effects does not mean you know the procedures and methodologies, or have the knowledge and skill to implement the others.

In short there is nothing wrong with not being able to know and do EVERYTHING! There is nothing wrong with having to make choices...or make sacrifices in one area to improve in another...we all do it everyday already.
First, YOU aren't flying the ship. You are giving orders to fly the ship. There is a vast difference in this and your example. Your example is true, just because you can drive a civic doesn't mean you can drive a bus. However, your example doesn't apply to STO because you are simply giving the orders to fly the ship. You aren't physically doing the work.

It's all computer based, and you only need someone trained to put the info into the computer. A captain can command any ship. The only part of your example that could apply would be the experience of that ship. Meaning, I can give orders to the Akira crew, but that doesn't mean I am aware of the Akira's weakness or strong points in comparison to the Intrepid I was just in command of.

Still, that is why you have a crew, to cover what you don't know.

2.Shields are energy based. The principle of draining shields is the same of draining energy from the ship itself. In order to drain shield you are basically just taking power away from that system, and since all the ships system get their power from the same source...what changes when you drain from weapons instead?

Nothing really. If you have a battery powering your flashlight and your radio, draining power from the battery to shut off the radio is not going to be any different than draining it to shut off the light. Only difference is where you are targeting the drain.

Lastly, it's not about being able to do everything. It's about cost of choice.

Some of us have been playing the game since beta. As such, we may grow tired of flying the same old ship that we have for months. Also, they release new ships over time that we may decide to try out.

The issue is that we can't easily jump into another ship and fly because we have to spend a respec to do so. A costly respec no less. The ships built by the Federation are modular. This means many of them share components. Each ship has it's own specialized sections, but they are all essentially the same.

It is perfectly likely that a Captain can go from Commanding a Galaxy to a Defiant and find little trouble with the transition. His crew is trained to run that ship, he is trained to give strategic orders and make tactical decisions. The Captain doesn't need to know exactly how to pilot or repair the ship. That is why he has his crew.

But even so, Federation ships are pretty universal, so it takes a short time to understand the minute differences between two ships.

We put an emphasis on Tactical or Engineeing or Science, and most ships are specialized in one type of function. However, a tactical trained Captain can easily command an Intredpid, even though it is a Science specilized ship. He leaves the Science part up to those better trained for it.

This is where players are having issues. We have to total rebuild our characters to fly a new ship. Weapons is also an issue, with certain weapon types costing more than other without being better than the others.

These are the things that were to be addressed with a new skill system. It's not final, yet, and there should be more changes coming. But YES, you should be able to command any ship and be fine, no matter your training. You have 1000 crew on that Galaxy for a reason, to do what you tell them to do.

As for the OP.

I think you are missing one point to the new system. You can't compare it to what you have on Holodeck. That is a different system. You have to compare it to other players using the Tribble system.

If you lost 1000 hull, others did too. So, the question are you weaker? Maybe weaker than the old build on Holodeck, but not weaker than other players on Tribble. If you ARE weaker, that is what needs to be discussed.

We can't compare to Holodeck for balance. We have to compare within the same system.