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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 44
12-29-2011, 06:38 AM
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
I think you underestimate the value of the consoles. Or at least some.

Remember the good old days when Target Subsystem stacked with itself, and against some people, you would basically be shieldless?
Yes, and I remember how the hull tank became the norm as a result. Then after the change to TSS3, I recall that Engineers in Star Cruisers became nearly impossible to kill without massive ganging up under certain configurations, which remains true to this day.

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Well, that stacking is no longer possible. But guess what - there is now a new console that drains energy. And it stacks with all the other options to drain energy (and apparently even with itself).
Right, the leech is nasty. And if an Engineer throws EPSPT III on the target, even when the enemy is stacking against that target, the target doesn't fall below zero power. In other words, there is a skill right now that does overcome the tactic, but it is a profession skill and requires teamwork, and btw it has a similar cooldown as the leech. Is EPSPT III OP too, because it stacks!

I'm not against Cryptic taking a look at the leech console to maybe increase the cool down, but I honestly don't think the ability as performed is OP. I also note that once again my point is proven correctly - teamwork is OP in the face of all skills, equipment, and combinations.

There are also several combinations that make a difference, for example. Target Subsystem AUX II significantly reduces the power drain of everything else that stacks with Leech. Most of the BOPs using Leech/SCI builds have **** for Engine power, and are highly vulnerable to drain when not sucking your power. Most of the BOPs using Leech/SCI builds have no hull resist because they use ENG console spaces for universal consoles. You are so focused on the strengths of the Leech/SCI BOP you failed to mention even one weakness of the build in your analysis.

Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
The consoles are not some minor passive benefit. They are just like Bridge Officer or Captain Powers. They have to be accounted for with the same seriousness and concern as any other power.

Which is why the very idea was bad bad bad bad bad to be begin with. As if balancing the existing BO powers wasn't hard enough on the Devs, now they have added another set of powers to the game that are 100 % cumulative. If they were added as BO powers, I don't think they would be such a big issue - they would complete with other powers for their slot. Some may be better than existing options, which would indicate bad balance - but better may just be "good enough so they can be finally taken instead of never taking", which wouldn't harm gameplay necessarily.
This is nonsense, because it focuses on only one aspect of gameplay changes without accouting for other changes which have also made a significant difference, like SETs and devices and DOFFs, for example. The number of ways SETs and new special loot drops in Episodes (particularly on the Fed side) have changed the game is facsinating to me, as a Season 1 guy, and I'm only just starting to see the impacts as I accumulate items by Replaying Episodes. What SET are you running? Are you even trying to adapt, or is your tactical adaptation limited to your power keyboard moaning skills? In all of these threads where folks moan about new Klingon kit, why is it no one is suggesting ideas and counter tactics?

Every single one of these Leech/SCI BOP builds relies on high AUX power for them to be successful. It is the strength behind their power drain, TSS shield resist/recharge, and HE hull repair. Where are they placing their consoles on their BOPS, SCI or ENG? Given the strength of power drain skills, I think they are using ENG console slots - and I have found they have very limited resist on their hull.

While moaning about the strengths of new kit, what are you doing about the weaknesses of the new build BOPs? Are you adapting as the Klingons add new stuff, or just pouting that the old build you have long been comfortable with no longer works as effectively as it used to? You know what I see when I read complaining on this forum about the new Klingon universal consoles? I see a bunch of whiners who are complaining because they are being asked to do something very hard - they are being asked to adapt. In games - and in life - resistence to being forced to change is the single biggest complaint you will find among others. Because Feds weren't given some new kit to encourage change, they are moaning the need to change. WAAA. /cry

The same is true in STO, and STO PvP. If it appears I lack sympathy to your cause, it is because my Fed who I have been playing a lot lately has not had the problems others are having. I have different problems, no doubt, mostly related to being behind the eight ball on three seasons of cool gear, but adapting to the Klingon consoles? Not so much, and tbh I like my Fed consoles so far. Maybe it is because I'm a cocky *****, but I honestly believe that once I finally accumulate all this new gear - I'm going to be the most OP Fed MFer in PvP if the folks on thsi forum is my competition. Why? Because I'm not stuck in some pigeon hole like most Feds regarding my build - all the kit is new to me, so I'm not holding onto any old perceptions or notions when tinkering my kit.

Maybe because I haven't been playing for 18 months and haven't been married to a certain build/style I see both the Fed and Klingon consoles differently than you. In my experience so far, the consoles have simply made the BOP a SCI build, which is exactly how I remember the best BOPs when I left. I'm sorry to be just observing facts, but the difference between what BOP/SCI console builds are doing today and what Klingon BOP folks like Santa Claws or Keldor were doing when I left at the beginning of Season 2 is very little. This may be new OP WOWPOW in your mind, but it all looks quite familiar to me - it's simply being done a different way.