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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 963
01-11-2012, 03:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
they are absolutely not all needed, only most people don't feel comfortable without skilling all of them. what uses does a dive bombing, decloaking, alpha striking escort have with hitpoints and armor? none! they should be full engine power evasive after they get thier kill, or fail to get their kill. pouring points to try to correct uncorrectable weaknesses is a waist of points. a lot of science ships builds don't need boosted energy weapons damage or crit enhancers, their science abilities are their primary means of damaging. they turn pretty good too, they might not need much turn rate buffing. cruisers only really need the defensive skills, unless the user has delusions of being a major damage dealer. federation cruisers dont turn well, that's another unfixable weakness, and an unnecessary point dump for a slightly better turn rate. you had to invest in 5 (1 at each tier) '+ to ship type' skills before to get the buffs from that skill you particularly needed, now you can invest in the skills individually that you need for lot less.
What else is a dive bombing escort going to spend points on exactly? Escorts make out pretty good since they don't actually need weapon performance anymore and certainly don't need the majority of science skills.

But any science ship that doesn't spec up their DPS is seriously hurting themselves and their team. Science powers do not make up for weapon damage, not even close. You can throw gravity wells all day long, but this game is all about killing things. The Kang can't be protected by gravity wells in Cure, PVP generally requires people to die to gain an advantage, and solo PVE drags on and on with a science ship's poor DPS. And more turn rate is always better. Science ships are slugs when it counts. But in the end science has more things to spec for that no one else does.

The same largely goes for cruisers that can't DPS. Cruisers can not last forever, the stuff shooting them needs to die.

Quote:
wait i though those extremely useful passives are extremely useful to every ship class, so you should be all set to switch ship types by specing into all of them right? before your '+ to ship type' skills gave you zero benefit if you switched types, now they give quite a lot of benefit. sure sure, your science skills would be messed up if you switched from non sci ship to escort or cruiser, i acknowledge that. but going from dps escort to dps cruiser should work well. that's surly what the majority of casual players will end up doing, so they are fine, and that's whats important to cryptic
Most passives are useful to all. Science requires skills everyone else does not, that is well established. But there are passives that are well served at different levels for different ships.

Attack patterns on a healing cruiser? Not really useful. So I guess switching to an escort would hurt. Or maybe I'll spec into particle generators for warp plasma damage, again, no use to an escort.

An escort can now hit 125 power with just points in warp core potential, which means speccing for weapon performance is unnecessary, or can be done to a lesser level than other ships who obviously want more weapon power for more damage. Similarly if you build a science ship for full aux power all the time (which is a VERY specific build, most science builds should not do that), they don't need aux performance, not so for the other ships.

I ended up skilling my different captains very differently based on their ship type and role that I wanted to use them for. This really sucks because I am pretty well forced to fly those ships and even those roles otherwise I lose performance.


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what a distorted vision you have, the opposite is true, at least for engineering skills. just about every engineering passive is helpful in its own right, so its likely most will spec into them. on top of that, you only need 1 skill, maybe 2 to fully boost engineering abilities. ive not seen an engineering ability have more then 2 skills that benefit it. before there were around 4 skills needed to fully buff abilities. it was very specific too, each EPtX for example had its own specific group of powers that buffed it, and only 1 in common, now they all have 1 or 2 common skills they all draw benefit from. aux to struc and ET are both engineering hull heals, and before they had no common skills that buffed their effectiveness, now all hull heals need but 1 skill speced into to fully buff them.
Yes, this is exactly my point. Science abilities require more expensive and just plain more skills than engineering powers. No engineering BOFF power requires a skill over T3. Tactical BOFF powers don't require over T2. Science BOFF powers require up to T5. See the disparity?

Also no BOFF power required 4 skills in the old system. It was 3 required skills for all of them, aside from a few which required nothing like Boarding parties. You needed a tier 1, 2, and one tier 3-5 skill.


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i think our difference of opinion stems from you being a heavy science user, and 1 not. sounds like specing for science skills is too expensive, but im completely happy with the results for a cruiser or escort build.
Yes that is the point. Cruisers and escorts make out okay in this system, though not much room for freedom. Science just suffers.