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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 964
01-11-2012, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Foxrocks
What else is a dive bombing escort going to spend points on exactly? Escorts make out pretty good since they don't actually need weapon performance anymore and certainly don't need the majority of science skills.

But any science ship that doesn't spec up their DPS is seriously hurting themselves and their team. Science powers do not make up for weapon damage, not even close. You can throw gravity wells all day long, but this game is all about killing things. The Kang can't be protected by gravity wells in Cure, PVP generally requires people to die to gain an advantage, and solo PVE drags on and on with a science ship's poor DPS. And more turn rate is always better. Science ships are slugs when it counts. But in the end science has more things to spec for that no one else does.

The same largely goes for cruisers that can't DPS. Cruisers can not last forever, the stuff shooting them needs to die.

Most passives are useful to all. Science requires skills everyone else does not, that is well established. But there are passives that are well served at different levels for different ships.

Attack patterns on a healing cruiser? Not really useful. So I guess switching to an escort would hurt. Or maybe I'll spec into particle generators for warp plasma damage, again, no use to an escort.

An escort can now hit 125 power with just points in warp core potential, which means speccing for weapon performance is unnecessary, or can be done to a lesser level than other ships who obviously want more weapon power for more damage. Similarly if you build a science ship for full aux power all the time (which is a VERY specific build, most science builds should not do that), they don't need aux performance, not so for the other ships.

I ended up skilling my different captains very differently based on their ship type and role that I wanted to use them for. This really sucks because I am pretty well forced to fly those ships and even those roles otherwise I lose performance.

Yes, this is exactly my point. Science abilities require more expensive and just plain more skills than engineering powers. No engineering BOFF power requires a skill over T3. Tactical BOFF powers don't require over T2. Science BOFF powers require up to T5. See the disparity?

Also no BOFF power required 4 skills in the old system. It was 3 required skills for all of them, aside from a few which required nothing like Boarding parties. You needed a tier 1, 2, and one tier 3-5 skill.

Yes that is the point. Cruisers and escorts make out okay in this system, though not much room for freedom. Science just suffers.

we are getting away from what was originally disagreed on, that the skill tree is no good at all. the way they insist on the skill tree working makes it basically impossible to go from ship type to ship type and it has failed to live up to the hype that you could. as long as you use 1 type of ship, respecs should be unnecessary. before, just about every time i swapped out abilities, let alone swapped ships, a respec was mandatory. now you only really need to when swaping ship types.

there is definitely more ability choosing freedom. ive been arguing that the new tree is better, and i think there is at least agreement now that for escorts and cruisers it is better. for science vessels its not much better, apparently you cant make yourself as powerful, but the tree does make you slightly more flexible then before in most areas.

with my limited sci ship experience, ive found that if a sci ship wants to deal damage it should focus on torpedoes, shield striping and energy draining. it at least wont need energy weapon specing. a sci ships other options are CC and throwing out spam to befuddle opponents. offense from weapons will always be a drop in the bucket for that build. these are only going to really be effective in pvp, i don't think there is a good way to fly a sci ship in pve at all, thats pretty much hopeless. are they of any use in stfs?

with energy levels, i would dump every point you can spare into them. if you run into hard caps, lower a slider and give extra energy to another system. they do need to chop what sci abilities are buffed by down to 2 or 1 skill(s), just like engineering and tactical skills, that's the least they can do. if they really wanted to be fair they would lower skill costs on tier 4 and tier 5 sci skills that effect abilities down to tier 3 level cost. only high end passives should be tier 4 and 5 skills, across the board. ability effecting skills should all be tier 3 and below. i hope the devs are still checking this thread, its discussions like this that really hammer out balance problems.

if they wanted to make a perfect skill tree once and for all they need to strip out what part of the tree your captain and crew could realistically effect, and what is effected by the hardware installed on your ship. the latter should be something you customize at the shipyard and should cost energy credits to adjust. each refit profile should be saved to the selected ship too, not your captain. nothing less then that would reflect accurately on starships. these are starships, not 1 person avatars and they shouldn't be treated like they are the same thing.