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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 73
03-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
1. Observed information, which I'm assuming you mean what is seen on screen, is considered canon. Technical manuals/guides are not. Even says so here: http://www.stardestroyer.net/mrwong/...arship_phasers
in the absence of any canon information one way or the other, soft canon tech manuals are the next best thing. my conclusions on how phaser arrays work fits the visuals, and doesn't violate canon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
2. They have shown one on one battles with the Defiant, not just fleet actions. In those battles, the Defiant took them out in a single volley. Wish I could refer to the video I posted earlier, but it seems like it was removed.
other ships have done basically the same thing, or done it quicker. bug ships and bops explode from 1 hit all the time, that's their purpose on screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
3. I have not seen any references that said the Defiant-class ships were meant to be cannon fodder to the Borg. Do you have any info on where you got that information?
what else could it be? its small, heavily armed, and more expendable then larger ships.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
4. Going back to your comments about the warp drive, it is a Class 7 warp drive. http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Class-7_warp_drive

They mention that: "Though never stated on screen, it is possible that the multi-lobe injectors were indicative of the "multiple reactant stream injection" technology Starfleet had under development years previous as referenced by Geordi La Forge in 'Galaxy's Child'. The feature was scheduled to be included in the 'next class starship'. "

Possibly one of the most advanced warp drives before Class 9 drives were installed on the Voyager. If we're going to use technical manuals as references, the DS9 technical manual said the theorized maximum warp speed was 9.982 for 12 hours. But, that's not canon.
the defient's warp core is 2-3 decks high, a galaxy class's is 12 decks high. not sure what all the height is for, but 1 is a hell of a lot bigger then the other. if you want to go quoting memory alpha, i will too

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Galaxy_class "The warp core was one of the most powerful in Starfleet, generating approximately 12.75 billion gigawatts of power. (TNG: "True Q") The efficiency of the warp drive could be tweaked to a point where it rivaled the new Intrepid-class ships introduced in 2370. (TNG: "Force of Nature")"

the maximum speed has more to do with the nacelles and warp coils, the core is just a big power source, it isn't the limiting factor on speed. except in the case of the equinox, that twig they call a warp core it had was likely the limiting factor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
Who said anything about killing a modern cruiser in 3 seconds?

My point is that, just because they are smaller ships, does not mean they don't pose a threat if the weapon technology and Captain/crew ability is good enough.

You could watch all of the DS9 fleet actions, but as we said before, no one in those battles appeared to have shields. Which wouldn't make sense for ships in the back of the fleet to have received volley fire.

As for examples of smaller ships being a threat to a modern cruiser:
1) Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country - took both the Enterprise and the Excelsior to take out one BoP.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fg58h...feature=relmfu
During that era, the BoPs were always considered to be outgunned by modern cruisers. Yet, in one on one battles, they have managed to hold their own.
that bop had a haxzor cloak, it got blown apart after it was defeated. the bop at that time was more of a threat to the cruisers of that era, the connie refit was only 6 times larger then a bop. during tng that same size of bop was 144 ties smaller then a galaxy class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
2) DS9: Return to Grace episode - A single BoP was able to take out a Cardassian outpost.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Klingon_Bird-of-Prey
i believe that was a planetary outpost? whatever it was its defenses and weapons were proboly nothing compared to an actual statship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
3) DS9: Defiant episode - The Defiant, under the command of Thomas Riker, was able to take out Cardassian cruiser (such as upgraded Keldon-class).
http://www.stardestroyer.net/mrwong/.../Defiant-class
it didn't get any kills in those instances, but it did disable some ships. cardassian ships are considered inferior to federation ships of similar size, but they stood up pretty well to "phaser cannon fire and six quantum torpedoes." http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keldon_class

heres some more documentation for you on that, this isn't just my opinion.

http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Cardassian "In 2367, Cardassian technology was notably inferior to that of the Federation. A Cardassian warship was easily destroyed by the USS Phoenix, even when the warship had the ability to penetrate the Phoenix's shields. Cardassians on board the USS Enterprise-D made several comments about the superiority of Federation technology, notably the ship's transporter technology, as well as the vessel's sensors, which were able to detect the classification of Cardassian ships at long ranges, an ability that Cardassian sensors did not have."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
FYI, the reason why we're rehashing the same arguments, is because I'm actually providing some sort of documentation that is contrary to what he is saying. He is providing his own opinion or referring to a technical guide (both of which are not canon).
you post documentation, that is really grasping for straws now, interpret it in a bias way to try to prove your points, and then i shoot holes in your evidence and submit a little common sense were there is no solid information ether way. the defiant may be sisko's pimp hand, but it does not outgun heavy cruisers and battleships