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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 75
03-14-2012, 08:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
You claimed that the energy moving down the emitter increased its power. I'll repost your comment

What is visibly observed is that energy travels down the array from opposing directions, converges, and fires on it's target.

Unless stated otherwise in the movies or series, it's non-canon.
unless someday we get an episode that sits the character down in a class room and walk through how they work there will never be a true canon explanation for them. the best we have is the tech manual that was written by those that worked on the show. it doesn't get closer then that to canon. i prefer a soft canon explanation to no explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
The outpost was planetary, this is true. But the weapon was powerful enough to disable the same BoP that attacked the outpost in one shot when it was shoved into a freighter cargo bay. Yeah, the BoP had it's shields down, but that's their fault for being so cocky.
thats why it was able to destroy the outpost, the weapons were harmless to it. it had to fly in to point blank range, lower its shields, tap on its chin, and get sucker punched to be harmed by it. and it didn't even destroy the ship, ducat captured and repaired it and used it until he joined the dominian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
1) In that episode, it was up against, initially 3 Keldon-Class ships that were heavily upgraded by the Obsidian Order. After one of the ships was disabled, another 3 came in. 6 on 1.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Defiant_%28episode%29
From your link on the Keldon-class ships:
"Built jointly with the Romulan Tal Shiar, these Keldon-class warships were fitted with cloaking devices, enhanced top speeds and weaponry"http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Keldon_class
2) The Keldon-class ships were build in the 2370s. Prior to that, yes, the Galor-class ships were inferior.
heavily upgraded is a stretch, nothing of the sort is stated. this is something that is assumed by whoever made that entry in memory alpha. its a valid assumption but not a strictly canon assumption. one can assume that they are better then galors, they have the additional nacelle wings in the rear of the ship, and the additional section on top. i doubt the Tal Shiar did much more then give them cloaks, these were needed on all ships for the operation. i doubt the romulans are going to be to generous with anything else.

i remember the episode, it stopped firing when the other ships showed up, it just fired on 1 keldorn. i'd have to fire up the episode to be sure, but i think it encountered 1 keldorn and blasted it, and 3 more decloaked as a galor caught up to the defiant, that's the one it surrendered to. there were like 10 more galors on the way too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
I will concede this point. But, unshielded, they did way more damage to a Breen cruiser than an array could do in one shot. Also, firing that many quantum torpedoes Breen kill either means a) quantum torpedoes are weak, b) overkill shot, c) canon, but not. Fleet actions seem to make canon a murky area. I suppose it's in the best interest of eye-candy to have a ship blown up by one torpedo, or take severe damage from 4+ torpedo shots. It's been like that from the series through the movies.
its hard to judge these thing really, the vfx just had to look cool more thean anything else. i prefer judging ships on the sum of their parts rather then inconsistent incidents, writing, and battles. after i define their parts i make my appraisal of where ships stand in relation to each other.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
Comparing a warship to a cruiser is like comparing a submarine to a luxury cruise. The Defiant is meant to do away with individual crew quarters and recreational/science spaces. It sacrifices all of that for smaller profile and maneuverability. If you take all of that stuff out of a cruiser, I'm sure you could drastically reduce the size of the ship.
its more like comparing a destroyer to a battleship actually. how comfortable the battleship is does not diminish the caliber of the battleships guns. the galaxy class can function with 60% of its hull empty, according to the ds9 tech manual. if the galaxy was nothing but critical systems and spartan accommodation and only 40% of its size would it be as powerful as a full size galaxy? not necessarily, if the galaxy's saucer wasn't so large it wouldn't have such large phaser arrays or so much additional volume that can soak up damage. a penetrating hit on the defiant will always destroy something critical because its so compact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
Operative word: "was". Yeah, La Forge is a genius, but he was really only motivated by rivalry with the Chief Engineer on the USS Intrepid. And, that was more of a competition for power efficiency. Not power generated.
the memory alpha quote happened to say the enterprise's warp core is the most powerful in service, for what its worth. power output and efficiency are mutually exclusive things, cores can be less powerful but more efficient, and less efficient but more powerful. every new thing that is labeled most advanced in star trek doesn't automatically make it the most powerful. that's a notion to many people cling to over a logic appraisal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shook-Yang
Showing documentation of canon to justify my reasoning versus relying on memory, non-canon technical manuals, and personal opinion. And you say that I'm the one grasping at straws?
i've posted plenty of links too backing up what i have said. on this subject, 1 minute your 100% stanch canon is canon and that's it, the next your saying well those fleet actions i don't know about them. my position is consistently been if there is a lack of hard canon, soft canon is the next best thing for filling in the gaps.