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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 78
03-15-2012, 10:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
unless someday we get an episode that sits the character down in a class room and walk through how they work there will never be a true canon explanation for them. the best we have is the tech manual that was written by those that worked on the show. it doesn't get closer then that to canon. i prefer a soft canon explanation to no explanation.
Okay, well according to the Star Trek: Starship Spotter photo technical guide, which was worked on by folks who worked on Voyager, the Defiant had mark XII phaser cannons (while the Prometheus and Sovereign have mark XII arrays). Galaxy, Akira, Intrepid, Sabre, and Nebula (as well as more TNG era star ships) had mark X. DS9 had mark XI.
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Phaser
But, it's still not canon unless it's on said on TV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
thats why it was able to destroy the outpost, the weapons were harmless to it. it had to fly in to point blank range, lower its shields, tap on its chin, and get sucker punched to be harmed by it. and it didn't even destroy the ship, ducat captured and repaired it and used it until he joined the dominian
Considering the feighter's in-ability to penetrate the hull of the BoP, and the fact that the disruptor nearly blew the ship apart during test firing, they only had one shot. Firing it against a shielded opponent would have been suicide. The beam was powerful enough to breach the hull and disable the engines in one shot. Enough of those disruptors could have been a threat to a BoP.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
heavily upgraded is a stretch, nothing of the sort is stated. this is something that is assumed by whoever made that entry in memory alpha. its a valid assumption but not a strictly canon assumption. one can assume that they are better then galors, they have the additional nacelle wings in the rear of the ship, and the additional section on top. i doubt the Tal Shiar did much more then give them cloaks, these were needed on all ships for the operation. i doubt the romulans are going to be to generous with anything else.

i remember the episode, it stopped firing when the other ships showed up, it just fired on 1 keldorn. i'd have to fire up the episode to be sure, but i think it encountered 1 keldorn and blasted it, and 3 more decloaked as a galor caught up to the defiant, that's the one it surrendered to. there were like 10 more galors on the way too.
I watched the episode again, as I hadn't seen that episode since it was originally aired. Keldon had shields, and the phaser cannons penetrated it in one volley. Keldon fired back a few times. Defiant turned around and fired 4 quantum torps. First 2 quantum torps missed, but did exploded with enough force to slightly move the ship. The 2nd torp volley hit the tail end and disabled the ship. The Defiant was about to run and continue their mission when they got hailed by Dukat and Sisko.

When the Defiant was running back to the closest Galor-class ship to surrender, it was being pursued by the remaining 2 Keldon-class ships. During that pursuit, Dukat notes that those were the fastest Keldon's he's ever seen and questioned what was going on in that Obsidian Order controlled space. Since it was established later that the Tal Shiar was involved with the Obisidian Order, it would appear that the Keldon's received much more than a cloaking device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
its more like comparing a destroyer to a battleship actually. how comfortable the battleship is does not diminish the caliber of the battleships guns. the galaxy class can function with 60% of its hull empty, according to the ds9 tech manual. if the galaxy was nothing but critical systems and spartan accommodation and only 40% of its size would it be as powerful as a full size galaxy? not necessarily, if the galaxy's saucer wasn't so large it wouldn't have such large phaser arrays or so much additional volume that can soak up damage. a penetrating hit on the defiant will always destroy something critical because its so compact.
Yes, the size give it an advantage is the amount of damage it can take (referencing Star Trek: Generations). But, at that cost of maneuverability and smaller profile. The Galaxy-class ship is meant for exploration. Obviously, it is designed to protect it's self and it's 1000 passengers. However, it is not a designated escort/warship.

The Defiant-class is built to fight. Nothing else. If they wanted canon fodder, they would send in Mirandas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot View Post
i've posted plenty of links too backing up what i have said. on this subject, 1 minute your 100% stanch canon is canon and that's it, the next your saying well those fleet actions i don't know about them. my position is consistently been if there is a lack of hard canon, soft canon is the next best thing for filling in the gaps.
My point has always been that what is seen on TV or the movies is canon. Even if the canon doesn't make sense. The problem with having a multiple TV shows around the same period of time, is that you are bound to have contradictions. For instance, sometimes a single, simple photon torpedo can destroy a ship in one shot. Sometimes it takes a lot. It really all comes down to entertainment value. One on one battles can make for an exciting battle. Not so much in fleet actions when there's hundreds of ships involved.