View Single Post
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 205
06-06-2012, 11:10 AM
Originally Posted by johnnymo0829 View Post
I'm kinda courious about the fleets that a large number of players have started that are only their own alt characters in the fleet with them. I have a total of 11 fed toons I play in an effort to try out lots of combinations in the game. How will these fleets be effected? I keep reading that the fleet system is geared to fleets with numbers of active accounts.
The ratcheting of values is based on active account resource accrual rates due to the fact that with the exception of the duty officer system, more characters on the same account doesn't generally allow you to accrue resources significantly faster.

A fleet of one account with a lot of accounts is certainly doable, and can indeed have a starbase, but it will probably take a lot longer to get there.

Originally Posted by Eklinaar
That said, something from the dev blog stands out. The third picture shows the contribution panel for a particular project. It lists 6 resources and the amounts required: 500,000 dilithium, 1,000k EC, 50 industrial replicators, 400 warp coils, 50 DOffs, and 30 Fleet Tokens. I'm concerned about the disparity in these amounts.

1 million ECs is pocket change; I can earn that in an hour or two of gameplay. Commodities are just trades for ECs, so those are equally easy to earn. 50 DOffs I can get almost at-will just by having 5 alts run a single round of all the academy recruitment missions (2 days of DOff assignment completion time for this, not even 30 minutes of gameplay time to queue them up). All of these are very easily obtainable goals by myself, too easy, I think. A fleet of 50 people gathering these resources would be nearly instantaneous.

500000 dilithium, though, that's a huge difference. It would take me months to grind that by myself. A fleet could do it, sure, but the big problem isn't whether a fleet could do it, it's the comparative difficulty in obtaining these amounts of different resources. Gathering 1 million ECs, 50 DOffs, 400 warp coils, and 50 industrial replicators combined would take a tiny, tiny fraction of the effort that gathering 500000 dilithium would take. If this image is representative of how most starbase projects would work, then the bottleneck will be dilithium, and all other resource requirements are, frankly, inconsequential.

Is it intended that starbase upgrades are, for all intents and purposes, a straight dilithium grind? Or are the numbers in this diagram just placeholders and not at all representative of the actual requirements of starbase projects?
The numbers are actually pulled directly from data mining of what the average casual player makes in a week versus how much they spend in a week. It's true, there is a significant backlog of accrued Energy Credits and Bridge Officer Skill Points, which means at the beginning of the system there will indeed be a period where people are not sweating those currencies at all. Once the reserves are depleted, however, then suddenly the value for both of these currencies is expected to rise in comparison with Dilithium.

The game has not had a significant sink for either of these numerics since the game launched, but it is possible now to see a day when both numerics will actually be sought after.

The numbers are based on 25 players playing casually, defined as logging in 2-3 times a week and playing an average of three hours each session. The data mining shows, as well, that the effects of more aggressive and expansive playing dramatically offsets numbers, meaning that 5 players who play very aggressively will actually outstrip a fleet of 25 players playing casually.

Originally Posted by Azurian View Post
It's one thing to not want people to burn through content fast, but taking seven months to see the results of your actions is just too much. Guaranteed people will get tired of contributing, especially when there is nothing else to do in the game. And surely people aren't going to want to log on to "build" and turn this into another "Job" like what we got going on now.

The more I hear about this Fleet system, the more it feels like it's punishing us that are a small group of friends and family. And it this really is discouraging people because the ammount of work they have to do to earn Dilithium is extraodinary, which means turning STO into "another job".

So our options are to abandon our "family" to join a larger fleet, where the chances of us being rewarded with a Fleet Starship is small. A slow construction that likely take us 2 years to do, or "buy" Dilthum off the exchange. (Yeah to the guys above about people "buying there way", here you go, you literally buy Dilithum.).
So, several points here, and I will try to hit the major ones.

On the issue of time to completely finish out a starbase, if all of the rewards were achieved only after 7+ months of play for a large fleet, I would completely agree with your assessment. This system is not designed to be like a Feature Episode, however, that you can play through quickly; it is intended to be a long term system that will be with a fleet for most of that fleet's lifetime, especially once one takes into account potential expansions to the system.

As such, it's not like character progression where you only really care about the rewards at the end of the trail; each tier has roughly comparable rewards, with subsequent tiers expanding your options without making the previous tier's rewards obsolete. This means a small or casual fleet that only gets to Tier II or III will have, in fact, about half of the potential top-tier rewards in the system.

If the measure of success is only on exhausting a system, then sure, this could be considered a major grind, especially for a small casual fleet. My hope is that people will instead see the system as it was designed, which is an essentially endless road with rewards all along the path.

If anything, there are more things that impair large fleets whose members will have a harder time getting their needs prioritized unless they have a very responsive and organized fleet leadership, and who will have fewer input options per player, since projects will tend to fill up faster.

Originally Posted by entnx00
Heretic, here's a question: About what tier does the 500k Dilithium task previewed in the dev blog come about, and how many tasks will require that much per tier? Because if that is Tier 1 or Tier 2 and 500k is a regular task requirement, then I understand why people are so angry with the amount. If it's Tier 3, eh...tough call. If it's Tier 4 and/or irregular, I'd ask people to just wait for low-tier costs before we talk about 500k dilithium being too much. (Even then, you have more than 1 person helping you, and I'm betting most have at least 2 characters, 1 Fed and 1 Klingon, to help harvest Dilithium from)
Those screenshots are a little out of date, but the most expensive Dilithium cost is the starbase facility upgrade from Tier IV to Tier V, which is 1,250,000 Dilithium. The average Dilithium cost currently for a project at Tier V is about 30,000 for a non-upgrade project (upgrade projects are generally about three times that cost, but only ever need to be done once).

By comparison, the current, subject-to-change Dilithium cost to upgrade a starbase from Tier 0 to Tier I is about 22,000, and the average Dilithium cost for a project at Tier 0 is about 3700 Dilithium.

Originally Posted by Xavierprotocols
Am I the only one that thinks constantly having to defend your base will be nothing more than a nightmare for small fleets that just wanted to group with friends or for people that just wanted to RP with other like minded people. I think it should be optional to allow base attacks or pvp at your base not a required thing. I don't get a chance to play much and when I do I like to do missions or other stuff I don't wanna have to log in and just hang out at the base to make sure someone is there to defend incase someone attacks.
You do not have to defend your starbase.

There will be intermittent starbase Red Alert defenses that present opportunities to members of your fleet to earn Fleet Marks, but if you do not engage them, or if you do and your starbase is brought offline, there is no effect to gameplay once you leave the instance.

There will also be queueable fleet actions that you can generally invite non-fleet members to participate in as well that will involve various scenarios around your starbase, but these are optional, and again, if you do not choose to engage them or engage in them and damage accrues, as soon as you leave the instance your starbase will be fully operational. (In fact, it is possible for a single fleet to have multiple of these scenarios going at once in separate instances - in this case there is no effect across instances).

Starbase scenarios are only there to provide opportunities to earn Fleet Marks, which are necessary inputs to progress your starbase. There will, as well, be other areas of the game that give similar opportunities to earn Fleet Marks.

Originally Posted by Lionscaptain
What about using excess bridge officers as starbase staff?, personally i have quite a few in my roster haning around doing nothing, it seems a waste to just leave them there, perhaps you could give higher quality buffs or equipment for the higher quality officers for example if you have all green level tactical officers make the weapons they can create only as high as green level
We discussed this, but the resolution was that most of the major sources for bridge officers are being slowly ratched back, so the current surplus is likely a temporary thing.

Also, it's really hard technically to get an unpacked bridge officer to work like an item input.

Originally Posted by ChibiClari View Post
A question on this: Do project slots get freed up for the next project at the beginning of the construction phase or at the end? For example, if an upgrade gets funded and then construction begins, and will take a week to complete, then can the next project be assigned for the funding stage immediately, or does the fleet have to wait until the end of that week with the under-construction project occupying the project slot until construction ends?
Project slots are freed up only after the upgrade is complete, not merely after it is funded.

Originally Posted by Roach View Post
Question. If only 20 members out of X in the fleet will get the "new Ship", can the mission that gives it be run more than once?
Yes. All provisioning projects, including ship provisioning projects, are repeatable.