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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 232
# 22
08-18-2012, 03:43 PM
Originally Posted by maelwy5 View Post
Umm... how should I begin to address this one?


1. The two builds I posted contain 6 Tactical powers for the Tac Ody and 5 for the Sci Ody. You can shuffle the powers around a bit, but aren't going to find a workable Ody setup that has more DPS potential than that combination of BOFFs.

2. The only "utility" build I posted was an alternative combo for the Tac Ody, this was used to very good effect in 'keepaway' missions like CSE - it's capable of handling two Kang attack waves simultaneously, and both TBR and GW1 are actually pretty good for pulling hate from multiple targets. This is not the only workable alternative build I've used for an Odyssey.

3. That Weapons "Buffer power drain beyond 125" bit you mentioned as the basis for your argument?

(i) It only applies for beams.
(ii) The increase in DPS isn't nearly as noticable as it first appears, in fact, the extra DPS for every point over 125 drops off very sharply (and incidentally, the Tac Ody can hit 130 before you even start adding Weapons Power Consoles).

How do I know this?

I tested it personally quite a while ago. Note the spreadsheet.

Threat Control acts as a damage impact multiplier. A Cruiser using a reasonable amount of DPS will pull aggro off a well-kitted-out Escort, assuming that Escort does not also have points invested into threat control.

Myself and others have tested this, and debated it quite thoroughly in many previous threads.

You'll notice that there's quite a lot of debate in many of those threads linked between myself and ussultimatum: we're not just agreeing with each other for the sake of it here.

You do not NEED maximum possible defence, just as you do not NEED maximum possible Damage output. It's always helpful to try to push your DPS up once you've got the rest of your build sorted, but it shouldn't be the only thing you focus on.

Reasonable DPS and heavy investment into Threat Control is one half of making a decent Tank. Sufficient survivability and mobility are the other half. It's possible to cover both those halfs sufficiently and still have powerslots left over, especially on an Odyssey.

That's not to say there aren't some piss-poor builds flying around out there (and I've met most of them in PUG STFs - Cruisers, Carriers and Escorts - the Ody is no exception!) but don't judge what's POSSIBLE by what you've seen someone manage to do (or more likely, by what you've seen them "not manage to do")
Let's start with the most important one you fail to understand:
PERMENANT Weapon Power, from settings, ship boni, consoles, skill ... is CAPPED at 125. No surprise your experiments didn't yield an increase. Because THAT is what you tested.
TEMPORARY Weapon Power, from batteries, EPtW, drain ..., WILL kick in as soon as drain would reduce Weapon Power below the cap.
There's a HUGE difference in how they are handled, and temporary increases cause MASSIVE increases in DPS.
Which is what you're losing out on.

The other thing I'm going to mention:
Yes, Threat Control works as a damage multiplier for threat, correct.
But! If you're dealing less than half the damage of someone else, you won't hold aggro - at least that's the limit I've found to be true. Max.
And if you're gimping your dps output, then any decent (DECENT) Escort will EASILY pull twice the dps of your gimp. Without even a single point in threat control, that's aggro on him.
And once that happens ... well, you've FAILED. You're now a low-dps boat with no purpose. 'Hope that we're talking slow-moving targets, so at least it won't run out of your firing arc.
(Or that the escort gets away, but that's still causing a massive loss for group dps, especially if people just blew their cooldowns.)

And, again, as you probably didn't read my reply to ussultimatum, which would have saved both of us a lot of typing ... While you don't NEED max defense, having it saves you having to bring more heals. Which can be replaced by EPtW for more threat and damage. Which is NEVER a bad idea.
Oh, and against a DECENT Escort/Raptor/BoP, you DO NEED all the dps you can generate. Especially with a Tac Captain in the Escort.

While PvE is easy enough that you can fail quite a bit and still succeed, there's really no need to ADVICE PEOPLE TO DO IT WRONG!