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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 461
# 136
11-12-2012, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Listen, go back to the main page and read about Vesta. It is a science "cruiser." It does not have to be an Engineer ship to be considered a cruiser. Its not a destroyer, its not an escort, its not a scout ship, or recon ship. As a matter of fact there is a podcast talking about it. Go listen to that. On the list of ships, you can go ship shopping yourself. You got your own two eyes and fingertips. You can take your little character, roam around till you find the ship requisition store and look at the cruisers and science ships and what they do. Don't look for the Vesta there because its not released yet. You should look for answers before you try to argue.
I'm sorry, I thought we were using the term 'cruiser' as it is defined in the game, meaning an Engineering heavy vessel with 8 weapons, high hull hit points, moderate shields, low relative turn rate, 4 devices, and typically a power distribution of +5 to all systems. The Vesta doesn't fit ANY of these criteria, so I thought it was evident that it was not a cruiser in the sense that mattered for this thread. The reason I thought this, of course, was because that's how we WERE using the term until you got corrected repeatedly for not checking your facts and making wild, histrionic claims that you couldn't then back up. So now you are shifting the term to mean 'any ship that is described as a cruiser' in a vain attempt to score points off me by acting condescending to make it look like I'm the one who doesn't check my details. I'm not buying it, though.

Instead, let's see what happens when we accept your implied definition of a cruiser - according to some of the background info, both the Prometheus and Akira classes were considered heavy cruisers by the people who wrote the specs for them for the show, so I guess since the designers CALLED them that, it must be true. Remember, according to you, a ship doesn't have to be an Engineering ship to 'count' as a cruiser. In fact, it doesn't have to have any of the in-game criteria at all to be a cruiser, as long as someone used that magic word to describe it, so, pretty sure that means the Prometheus and Akira 'count'. I'll go a step further and point out that since there are at least SOME 'cruisers' in the game that can play the way you want, you should maybe run those, instead of complaining about how a ship that is not designed to do maximum damage does not, in fact, do maximum damage. Of course, since I run a Prometheus, I guess if you want to give 'cruisers' a general buff, go right ahead. Somehow I doubt that's the direction you want this to go, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexindcobra View Post
Nobody asked for a heavy crit torpedo. Thats why i asked for a proportionate raise in DPS for torpedos. That heavy crit torpedo would be an extreme raise. The Borg cubes and gates are the only ships on the NPC side that can do that. Only game Bosses have extreme level in HP and DPS. The other non-boss NPC's are not hitting wth that level of DPS, so I don't know what you trying to get at?
Again, I apologize, I thought we were talking about giving player ships torpedoes as powerful as those the NPCs use (because, of course, that was the request), and that you simply hadn't thought through the implications of doing that. Now I see that you in fact HAD considered those implications, and constructed an elaborate 'Goldilocks' scenario whereby you can buff torpedoes by an amount that makes them 'just right'. I assume the reason you didn't mention this before is because you figured it was so obvious we all would catch on, so I'm sorry we let you down. I eagerly anticipate your detailed proposal, complete with exact numbers so we can really examine it. Unless, of course, this is just you again trying to shift your argument away from something that was demonstrably a bad idea, and in fact you came up with this 'clarification' on the fly.

To be clear - torp damage now is fine, especially for PVE where it is trivially easy to knock down a shield facing and keep it down. Cruisers are fine, because they do more than enough DPS to contribute meaningfully in team-based PvP and PvE, they can add tons of survivability to teammates, and they are nearly indestructible when built correctly. Finally, Escorts are not super-ships in the game, nor is there a conspiracy by the devs to make them that way. Escorts have plenty of weaknesses, and there is no reason to make them obsolete just because you want cruisers to do a job they were never meant for.