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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 262
# 23
11-19-2012, 09:33 PM
Originally Posted by icegavel View Post
And so the fun begins. Let me rip apart your argument, one half-witted case after another.
First off, let's start with your nearly-insulting quip about PvE and PvP. Have you ever been on a team with 5 Escorts in an STF? You're in and out in 5 minutes. DP-Escorts are ALREADY game-breaking(1). In PvP, it's ALMOST the same. "Target Acquisition and Elimination" is what DP-Escorts EXCEL at. Your own argument defeats itself.
Second is your NEXT self-defeating argument: Your videos. Exhibit A might as well be a point in MY favor. The idiot has mines and a dual beam, and NO AoE. He wasn't BUILT to fight carriers.(2) Exhibit B is a premade vs a PUG. The enemy team was half-Cruiser, there wasn't NEARLY enough AoE against the fighters, and the enemy team ran around like chickens with their heads cut off. That video proves nothing, other than the fact that premades crush PUGs, which is already an established fact.
Third up is your bit on power drain. I've got bad news for you... half those abilities don't stack. It even says in the Energy Siphon tooltip that it doesn't stack with the others.(3) Gravity Well 3 isn't a perma-stuck, either. As holds go, it's pretty weak, actually. Only really good in PvE for mass-killing frigates (OH wait, wasn't that what I was saying?). VM can be cleared by Science Team(4), Tractor beams can be resisted by Polarize Hull, etc. Most/all of those counters are pretty standard for any build. Well, the SHOULD be pretty standard, at any rate.
On the topic of cruisers, you'd be surprised what those Engineer Cruisers can do with the right buffs. But, you're right about their damage (not that it helps your case any, I suggested what I did to increase their damage output in the first place). A cruiser's damage, regardless of who's flying it, has all the damage of walking out the airlock and throwing deli meat at the enemy(5). Giving them fighters is designed to fix that VERY issue.
I'll give you kudos only on your Science Ship bit, but you're partially wrong even there: It's hard for anything with a 2 minute cooldown to be a nuisance (innate subsystem targeting).
(6)Onto your tl;dr, when you say "tears your idea apart and drags it through the mud", do you mean like what I just did to your case? The only reason I didn't call your post out for flaming/trolling is because I didn't want a forum mod to be forced to read that crap.(7) I've been playing this game for a LONG time now, I'm pretty sure I'd know how it works by now.
(1) since you are a "long time veteran" or so you claim, you will know then that STFs prior to what they are today were challenging and required teamwork and a variety of classes and ships. the revamp destroyed any balance it had and thus, made the three space stfs reliant on solely dps. that is a systems design flaw.

escorts are supposed to do damage, granted. but they're not supposed to be as tanky as a cruiser. that's another design flaw. one that was recently somewhat corrected with the break up of the 4-piece borg set. running a 3/1 set that gave you a shield heal and hull heal proc on damage taken while running a high capacity or high resistance shield is just dumb. running a 2/2 set that gave you a hull heal proc on damage taken and an additional passive ability is broken. because they fixed this exploit, escorts are not going to be as tanky as they were before and they will have to rely on support people for heals and such.

a standard escort generally has a lt engi and a lt sci. with maybe an ensign engi/sci. that's 5 powers for hull healing or shield repair. hazard emitters should be an absolute must, so you're down the 4 powers. rsp/auxtosif will take up the lt engi slot. down to 3 powers. epts will take up the final engi slot for the lt and should on decent builds take the ensign engi slot. thus, you are stuck with 1 last sci skill. you can use that for sci team, but it will interfere with you rolling tac team 24/7. it'd be nice to give it to another person when you're not being attacked, but under fire, tac team wins over sci team always, but you as a seasoned pvp and pve vet already knew that.

thus, a tac in an escort has very little options in terms of tanking massive spike damage or just lots of damage over time. that is the opportunity cost for flying a glass cannon. with the changes to the pve enemy ai and the new onslaught stf content, a team of 5 glass cannons should not be able to steam roll through that stf. that stf represents what stfs used to be prior to being split up and made into tac dps fests.

(2) that is a standard alpha strike pvp build. where you have a classic single target massive burst damage build. the kind of build that can put out the 22k spike dps that you claimed that you could. attack pattern omega, cannon rapid fire, high yield torpedos and a beam target shield. serious escort players in pvp have only one copy of cannon scatter volley 1 and that's merely to get rid of occasional spam. they are not rolling with multiple copies of aoe attack. look at any of the reputable guides in the pvp forums. they focus on single target attacks over aoe.

(3) prove it. all of my power drain abilities stack perfectly fine. i am not limited to using just 1. my polaron weapons + aceton assimilator + plamonic leech + energy siphon boff abilities stack just fine with each other. i've done multiple tests in pvp and it can easily shut down other players. so to this point, shut me up and prove me incorrect, because this is the build I fly every day and it is damn effective.

(4) gravity well 3 by itself is meh. combine it with proper doffs and speccing into the skills graviton generators and particle generators as well as other sci abilites and it can be pretty unforgiving. viral matrix can indeed be cleared by science team, but it should be granted to you by a person not taking fire. i guarantee that if you hit sci team to clear it yourself, there is no amount of manual shield distribution you can do that will mitigate the incoming damage you'll receive. this is where cross healing and team play come in. mind you, a good sci pilot will not unleash all their abilities on you at once. they will stagger their attacks and hit you when you are most vulnerable. all buffed up and you get snb'd? hit sci team. then we hit viral matrix. then you're open to be picked apart for the next 30 seconds while your sci team and tac team are on cooldown.

(5) i've got a couple of tac captains in cruisers that would beg to differ. they're not doing escort level damage, but their damage over time and survivability is amazing and that's where it comes down to. playing your role. learn to play your role correctly and leave it at that.

(6) you have 4 innate target subsystem abilities. target weapons is helpful for dropping your target's weapon power. target shields to decrease shield damage resistance and regen rate. target engines to slow your target down and decrease their overall defense bonus and target aux to limit their heals and sci related powers. yes, each one may have a 2 minute cooldown, but you have doffs for that and there are 4 separate powers that have a 30 second global cooldown. if used correctly and specced properly (flow capactiors and subspace decompiler) they can be very deadly and quite the nuisance.

(7) sorry if my tl;dr was a little harsh. but the fact of the matter remains that i have given logical and concrete evidence as to why everyone should not have hangars. the videos that i showed were mere examples of how these hangars could be exploited. i'm sorry if i disagree with your initial idea, but I have made subsequent attempts to logically explain my position.

final note: in accordance to your idea, a fleet tor'kaht is classified as a cruiser. under your guidelines, it would be awarded 2 hangar bays. with 8 weapon bays that can use dual heavy cannons, a ltc and lt tac boffs slots, almost 40k in hull, an innate 10 (unbuffed) turn rate and a 1.1 shield modifier, it already is being flown as a heavy escort. the addition of a pair of hangars would indeed make this ship stupidly overpowered.

[edit] a couple resources

Learn how to play your class properly
PVP ship help and a couple builds
More ship builds
Some Sci stuff

Last edited by xsharpex; 11-19-2012 at 09:56 PM.