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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,714
# 9
11-20-2012, 02:44 PM
Originally Posted by vesolc View Post
2000 zen ship better than 2500 zen one ?
If you look at what I said, I was saying that it would cost even more than your usual ship in FSMs (I personally was thinking 8 or 10). And it is technically a fleet ship, so yes, it would be more powerful. Look at the Fleet Tactical Escort Retrofit. It costs 2k zen but is far more powerful than the c-store Tactical Escort Retrofit. So yes, in that sense, a 2k zen ship better than a 2500 zen ship, but in this case, it would cost 4k to 5k zen.

Originally Posted by slurmer View Post
Why not add a hangar or to while ur at it...
Not sure if you're mocking me or something, but I did say this would require a tier 5 shipyard and a TON of time and resources. I also was loopy as hell when writing this, and it's just an idea. No need to get snippy. Besides, we all know it will never be executed or even introduced.

Originally Posted by mimey2 View Post
That certainly would make them much more powerful, and truly be flagships. Just have a couple qualms about it:

1. Multiple fleet ship provisions? Sorry, I really don't agree with this one. Yes it would make it truly a fleet ship in all meanings of the word, the biggest 'prize' you could say of reaching tier 5 shipyards.

But having it need multiple provisions could make a lot of fleets 'shut off' ship buying potentially, or it could be kind of an elitist status symbol to own one.

2. 500,000 FCs and modules is a steep price tag as-is. Would there be no discount given whatsoever to anyone who had the bundles already?

Even so, people in small fleets would never ever reach a tier 5 shipyard (ignoring them leaving to buy it elsewhere), and a large fleet would have a lot of people wanting fleet ships in the first place, not to mention few people having that much FC, let alone an extra module cost.
Probably the most constructive post other than baudls. In response to your comments:

To point #1: I put that in since you are getting a ship that is stupidly powerful. If you had it just cost 1 FSP and the usual 4 FSMs, then it would be too easy to get. The whole point here was to make a ship that you had to work your rear off to get, and you would be handsomely rewarded for all your work. Granted I have no control over fleet politics, so if leaders want to be douches and not let just ANYONE have it, that's their call.

To point #2: Again, the steep price was to ensure that it would be fair. You are in essence getting a 10 console ship that can also use the set bonus without any penalty to it's regular abilities. There needs to be a high cost, or it IS too easy to get.

You are probably right, that it will turn into an elitest symbol, but since there are so many ships that are better than cruisers (even those two ships), in the end, it will probably just be a symbol, nothing more. But imagine if you could have your oddy or bort with it's set bonus and still have all 10 consoles available. THAT would be a true flagship, as you stated.

Originally Posted by decker03 View Post
Yeah sure, why not take the ultimate tank/heal cruiser and give it even more hull and an insane shield mod of 1.25...

You are aware of the fact that the Odyssey and Bortas C-Store packs are already Fleet ship level right? I mean hull, shield mod and 10 console slots, its all there. The T5 Odyssey/Bortas is just a tease, they are the same as the second anniversary ships and there is really no reason to get them. They are just there for advertisement.

I think we are all aware that people still somehow manage to fail and die with ships like the Odyssey and the Vesta, but creating ridiculous stats that no ship has ever seen before will not solve that.

Edit: Oh, just saw your ships also offer 13 skill slots. Yeah cool, you can never get enough of them. There's nothing else in the game with 13 slots, so I guess that's a good reason the Odyssey should get it.
And your post is probably the most aggressive, and I daresay not horribly encouraging, but still has valid points, and is surprisingly constructive as a result, so I will respond to it. For starters, it's not necessarily the ultimate tank/heal cruiser. That goes to the Fleet Galaxy-R. If you look at overall stats and BOff slots, the Galaxy-R is the true supertank. The Oddy is just a more versatile ship.

Secondly, the hull shield mod increase was because those are fleet variants, want them to be a tad more powerful than the regular ones. And in all honesty, the Bort only has a mod of 1, which for a fleet ship is unacceptable. My Tor'Kaht has a shield mod of 1.15, and it's a lower tier on the shipyard, and costs less than the Bort c-store versions (ANY of them), and it's vastly superior in EVERY aspect except hull and size (size don't matter though). When you have a ship like that, you don't need any of the higher tier cruisers. Period.

Thirdly, you are correct, the c-store variants are on par with many fleet class cruisers, but they themselves don't have a valid fleet variant (and I do NOT consider the Odyssey Star Cruiser and Bortas Battlecruiser to be fleet ships. They are just too weak and only have 9 consoles). And you are also correct that the c-store versions are very powerful as is. But the hull and shield mods are not necessarily up to par with fleet versions, if you're looking at their roles. These are supposed to be the flagships. And yet the Bortasqu (c-store version) only has a shield mod of 1. Not 1.1, not 1.15, but 1. And the Odyssey? If it's a fleet ship, then why does the Fleet Galaxy-R have more hull than it does? Just a thought.

These stats may be a mite insane, but it's only an idea, and if you put ships like these into the hands of actually competent cruiser/battlecruiser pilots, then they will be able to do some serious damage. And no, this was not an attempt to make the idiots who die in oddys and vestas on a regular basis actually able to live. If I had my way, anyone who dishonors those ships by dying regularly and easily would have those ships removed from their rosters permanently. -.-

As for your edit, the sarcasm is palpable. I actually laughed when I read it. I figure by the time you were done writing your response, you were pretty worked up and kinda angry. So I will attempt a calm response. Those extra 3 slots are for unique odyssey/bortasqu consoles ONLY. You can't put anything else there. No extra tac consoles, no extra engi consoles, no extra sci consoles. Just the unique ability consoles. And the ONLY reason I put that there was so that it would maintain the 10 consoles of fleet ship, but still allow you to get the set bonus. If you want the set bonus (which isn't great, but isn't terrible for either of those two classes), you have to sacrifice 3 console slots. And despite what you get in return, it's not worth losing 3 consoles. That injustice (yeah, call me biased, but I see it as an injustice) is just a tad too much. So I just came up with a way for you to be able to use all your abilities and still have the 10 consoles of a fleet ship.

One thing you seemingly ignored (or dismissed, not sure which) is what mimey posted. The prohibitive cost of acquiring one. You are looking at 500 THOUSAND fleet credits, and eight to ten FSMs. That's just to get the base ship. Also it requires a tier 5 shipyard, which is going to get costly to get up to, and require lots of work on an entire fleet's part. Again, that's just for the base ship. If you want to add in the 3 consoles for the set bonus, that will cost you anywhere from 5k to 7500 zen. So in total, your ship will cost 500k fleet creds, and 10-12k zen, or 500k fleet creds, 5k-7500 zen, and 50 million ECs (provided you get FSMs at the usual 4.8 to 5.2 mil ecs per) if you want to bring it up to full potential. If you ask me, that huge cost certainly makes up for how powerful the ship is.

Thank you all for your input (decker included, as meimetoo would say, there must be an opposite reaction for every reaction), and please, keep the comments coming, I will try to clarify and explain anything you guys need me to.
It is said the best weapon is one that is never fired. I disagree. The best weapon is one you only have to fire... once.
Why the Devs can't make PvE content harder. <--- DR proved me wrong!