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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 120
# 23
11-28-2012, 10:52 PM
Originally Posted by inputend21 View Post
Um,no Fab Kit for DPS out shines Enemy Neutralization,lets see 3 turrets,3 quantum mortars,and 3 support drones? really man really a Noob kit,no pros that know mechanics of the engineer run this kit,E.N. kit is decent for damage,but no where near the DPS of a Fab Kit,Oh and now the fab kits get flamethrowers on the Turrets.
You are assuming you have several minutes to pull out 3 support drones, 3 turrets and 3 mortars. With my fleet, we move so fast, with such high DPS, that we can finish IGE, KAGE, and CGE in 30 min. We never stop running in an STF. My tac averaged 239 DPS through out a full Colony Invasion mission. He can averages 170 DPS in an STF. I can't get it higher because the borg are too far apart.

Originally Posted by gypsyblade View Post
I use both the Fab and EN kits on my Engineers..

I've heard all the arguments as to why the EN Kit is "soooo much better"

It's all situational, lets face it, when you need to stay ranged the EN kit falls short of the Fab. The EN kit is great for aggressive gameplay, but, you're pretty much useless throughout most of IGE. It's great in CGE... both the Fab and EN kits do fine in KAGE, EN being better on the nodes and Fab being better in the room.

Just to add the EN kit is almost useless on Rebecca, whereas the Equipment Technician really shines in this room.

Again all just opinion.....

DPS this, DPS that.... argument is invalid when you think utility and what's the most useful at the given point of the mission.
Yes, the situation can determine what is best and it was very useful until they removed the gains from kit switching. I am really not interested in going into the specifics but trust me. Enemy Neutralization with a good team can deal 20K damage in 20 seconds, on the move. Massive spike damage but you are VERY dependent on a tactical officer helping you. You also have control on where you want the damage to be. So with the right team Enemy Neutralization becomes very powerful.

I understand how the fabrication kit is great when you are pugging it. It helps you sit back and avoid the majority of the damage, since your pets have massive "Threat Generation" and they get the focus fire. But with a well balanced team you will hardly be doing anything with a fabrication kit, since the team moves so fast!

Originally Posted by pottsey5g View Post
Not sure where you get 40dps from. In 20 seconds that?s 24 shots from 3 morters at 622.5 damage per shot. So that?s 14,940 damage in 20 seconds or 747dps without crits. Are you playing Elite as I rarely have morter miss's on Elite.

Morters have such long range they will hit far more then 1 volly and 1 group. Turrets I agree are hard to use with fast teams but morters you just dump on ground and use them for the next 3+ rooms.
40dps comes from logs and yes Elite is all we do. Well Mortars are slow in their fire rate. They usually pick the closest target first and the closest target gets dropped first, by your team. By the time the Mortars acquire the next target, your team is already clearing that group. In a slow pugging group this can still work. But in a fast and powerful team your mortars will hardly be doing anything.

To give you an idea, in IGE, we split up in the Queens room, 3 people go left and 2 people go right and each group drops 2 generators. This is usually a great place to have mortars. They can clear platforms, BUT, with my group we drop the generators and the Queen in about 1 min flat. No amount of mortars will keep up with that pace and be effective. Again, great for slow groups, horrible for groups packing a punch.

But high end PvE missions are done as a team not as an individual.

Originally Posted by diogene0 View Post
Fire team has always been an ok pve and a good pvp kit. It's still inferior to squad leader for STFs or to operative when you play selfishly in fleet actions, but with motion acceletator, that's arguably the best tac kit in game now.
Squad leader is a great kit, but in no way does it match up to fireteam kit for its diverse abilities. Squad Leader use to be alot more useful, before we all started running with Mk XII armor, but the diminishing returns really hit us hard.
I have done the math on this and Squad Leader doesn't offer as much as it appears to. But your play style will affect the usefulness. If you are pugging it then Squad Leader might be a more comfortable kit. Same goes with Operative.

But Fireteam kit, with a fast moving team, and Tactical Officers with 6 or more in Squad Command, will yield top end DPS values with crazy survivability. Suppressing fire stacks AND gets buffed as you buff up. Super Buffed suppressing fire from several tactical officers, with a Science officer's dampening field, will make Armek look like a kid's toy. Imagine Pulsewave hits in the 4K range and Plasma grenades in the 3K range. Imagine chaining this kind of damage throughout an STF. With the new fireteam kit, on my tac, I can now close those big gaps between borg groups and get out even higher sustained DPS values.

I am going to love the new fireteam kit, but the engineer kit and the science kit will leave A LOT to desire. I won't be playing my Sci or Engi that much, if at all.

Just for interest sake: The Survivability/DPS combination of the tactical officer is superior to that of the science and engineer, at this point in the game, in a PvP situation. I am listing the PvP situation since it is the easiest method to directly compare the classes to each other. This was tested by Person A and Person B each playing their Sci and Engineer against the opponents tactical officer. The Tactical officer won the most often. With both player A and B playing all 3 classes, it avoided one player being better than the other in one class, affecting the results. So as it stand in the game at the moment, the Tactical Officer is contributing the most in a PvE senario, a balanced team can still be more effective than a pure Tactical Officer Team. Motion Accelerator and Plasma Grenade IV is going to out perform what Engineers and Science officers are receiving on their kits.

Sorry for the long winded reply but since I am the OP, I felt that unexplained points in my OP needed to be addressed. If anyone is interested in how to output high sustained damage as a team with great survivability you can PM me @Pug01. I am more than willing to demonstrate the "secrets" to perfecting your ground game, OR you could show me what you feel is effective in your playstyle. I am always willing to learn something new about the ground game. I have pure ground toons of each class with each kit and just about every type of gun or device.