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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,734
# 42
12-24-2012, 11:43 PM
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
That "dreadnought" BOFF layout is one of the biggest things wrong with the free Bortas.

My proposal, since you apparently didn't read it, was..

4 fore
4 aft
10 base turning
0.15 impulse modifier
1.0-1.05 shield modifier
30,000 hull
900 crew
+10 Weapons


Lt.Cmdr Uni
Lt Tac
Cmdr Eng
Ens Eng
Lt Sci


4 eng
1 sci
4 tac

Could alternatively do:

4 eng
2 sci
3 tac

It'd basically be a Bortas, that we got free last year, with much worse defenses, much less crew, and better maneuverability. It'd have the defensive capabilities of the tier 4 Vor'Cha, with the weapons, consoles and BOFFs of the tier 5 ships.

It'd be a stand-in battlecruiser, just like the K'Vort was supposed to be.

It's not going to have the effectiveness of the Fleet Vor'Cha/Tor'Kaht due to only being a 9 console boat, having less shields, hull and crew. It'd also lack the Flor'Kaht'Cha's +10 engine power.

It's not going to be as tanky as the Negh'Var or Bortas because it has much less hull, shields and crew, but it has better maneuverability. It also lacks the Bortas' +15 weapons power bonus.

I could also argue that the KDF has no intermediate battlecruiser.

You're either stuck with the garbage default Negh'Var, staying with a tier 4 ship, buying the terrible Bortasque, or getting a fleet ship. This could make a good, solid tier 5 ship, without replacing anything else, and without introducing capabilities that no other KDF ship can match.

Because no free ship should do that.

I'd want it because it's a neat ship that's available for a limited amount of time, for free, "celebrating" one of the best episodes of TNG.

A ship doesn't have to replace anything I've already got for me to want it..

I'd want the Ambassador even if it was nothing more then a reskin for the tier 4 Galaxy...I'd still want it.. want the seating of the Veteran Destroyer, (that IS an LTC universal, right?) on a FREE cruiser...and you don't see this as a problem re: the cruisers we have to pay cashy-money for.

we've GOT the intermediate Cruiser covered; it's the Tor Kaht. YES, you have to buy (or grind Dil and convert to zen) Fleet Modules for it, but the role's covered. We can't buy, beg, borrow, or steal a good Science ship, and on the free-to-play end if you want universal seats, you gotta go BoP unless you're a 1000 day vet or a lifetimer.

and you want to give it to everyone who'll sit through a ten minute mission-to use your own words.

Further, it's obvious you're pining for the "free" Bortas pretty hard...but next to nobody else is missing that-look at the posts that aren't me-they're talking Escorts more than Cruisers, hell, more people're talking 'big BoP" than Cruisers with the Bortasque seating arrangement.

There's not a big movement on the boards (I lurk here a LOT) looking for yet-another-Battlecruiser (unless it's a K'Tinga or another Vor'cha variant, a few have talked Negh'var...) so look at your market.

Cryptic's a business, they are, in the end, in the business of making money to keep the lights on, pay the bills, and pay dividends to their investors.

The demand, the "Market" isn't in yet-another-cruiser. Further, while eight weapons bays makes YOU drool, 30k hull on a turn rate of ten isn't any better than 50K hull on a turn rate of 3, there are damn good reasons Cryptic's miserly on passing out ships with Universal slots that aren't BoPs-they're a revenue source, and intended to be relatively rare vessels you either buy, or buy keys to get.

This cuts into the money-making, and that's the hard business side. On the demand side, we have a hole in the roster, it's not filled with the Gorn ships, or the Carriers, nor is it filled adequately by the Bird of Preys we currently have.

The B'Rel refit shows that a BoP can have fixed equipment, and they are increasingly visible over Qo'Nos (as in player controlled B'rels), in Ker'rat, and in both STF and PvP play-it sold well enough that it was tapped over the Hegh'ta for a Fleetship version, which generated quite a storm of discussion when the stats were unveiled-which is a sign of what we call "interest".

MOST of the commentary on the B'rel (fleet) came down to "It should have had four SCIENCE slots, not Engineering slots". criticism is a sign of interest, and the long-standing complaint about KDF lacking proper science vessels has been loud enough to get the Varanus tagged for T3 Fleetship status-means the devs think it'll sell fleet modules.

And it has. I've seen a few-not many, but a few in the Fleet Actions like Red alert, Blockade, etc.

Statistically, the Varanus isn't a very good ship, and the Fleet Varanus is still not as good as some of the FREE Federation sci ships one tier lower.

This is the BASIS of MY counter proposal of building a Science ship in a Bop frame-most KDF Scis spend most of their career between 21 and 50 in Birds of Prey, it is the default for those players until level 50 or so, and it's the default for silver members (non subs) because it's cheap and can handle the seating-and BoPs are fairly popular, and everyone knows which ones are good.

Now, a "Science" K'Vort based not on a mutated Cruiser with fantasy seating, but on the idea of working from what we've had to what would evolve under the strain of the times, we get:

Hull:26000 to 30,000 (tougher than a Hegh'ta)
Shield: .99 to 1.3
Impulse mod: .2
turn: 14 to 17 (slower than a Hegh'ta)
+15 to Aux (minor difference-most BoP have +15 to weps)

Cdr Universal
LTC Universal
LT Universal
Lt Universal (seating identical to the Hegh'ta, B'rel refit, and Hoh'sus)

3 Engineering
4 Science
3 Tactical (basis: the B'rel Fleet has 4 engineering, Hoh'sus has 4 tactical.)

Integral abilities:
Subsystem Targeting and Sensor Analysis

Weps layout:
4 forward
2 Aft (Standard Bird of Prey layout, 6 weapons like every other science ship in the game)

Crew: 200 (more bodies than a Hegh'ta, but fewer than a Cruiser.)

In-game role: Electronic Warfare/Heavy Reconaissance/Task Force coordination

Remember, this is from a universe where the Federation's using Cloaking too-the KDF in such a universe would have to be utterly incompetent NOT to develop detection countermeasures once the Feds took the gloves off, and it would further make sense as an 'escorting vessel' to a Flagship-you can't STOP a Galaxy Dready if you can't SEE him.

Final bit: with the movement to giving the Feds Uni consoles and carriers (including the Vesta), tit-for-tat seems appropriate in the KDF developing Science Vessels based on chassis already in use BY science/recon crews...and technically, such a ship would be classed as a "light CRUISER" in public documents, it's "obviously" not a..a...'RAIDER'...after all, and with only six weapons mounts, it's obviously not suitable as a replacement for the Raptor classes.

(oh, and the wing-span? antennas and sensors may need to be mounted outboard of em and other radiation generating equipment-like engines. That much surface area gives a pretty decent array when you bother to think about it.)
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."