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Captain
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,085
# 46
12-25-2012, 02:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wunjee View Post
Because that's what they called it in that episode?



If KDF had dedicated science rigs, people probably wouldn't be using BoPs, which are classified ingame as raiders, for science duties. Especially when they aren't really that good at it because of a general lack of consoles..

KDF needs a dedicated Sci rig with 4/5 sci consoles, not a BoP with 3 sci consoles pretending to be a science rig. And adding another one of those isn't going to fix the problem.



Maybe because it--hold on for this one--wasn't government funded and a BoP would've been cheaper to not only obtain, but man, then a cruiser? We weren't talking about a KDF-run experiment. So they likely used what they could afford/spare/maintain.

Farmer John uses a Mazda Pick-up to haul dirt instead of a dump truck. Therefore, one can conclude Mazda Pick-ups are better at hauling dirt then dump trucks..

KDF would be government-funded. In fact, we hear in ST VI that 3/4 of the Klingon economy is dedicated to the military...



Good job making that up. Too bad it has no basis in the canon at all.

Give KDF real science rigs. Bird of Preys are not science rigs, nor should they be.
Warrior culture, geared for war-and there's more than the DS9 evidence-ST3, what was that Bird of Prey doing? Oh, yeah, intelligence work.

There are 4 ship classes in the Federation:
Cruiser
Carrier
Escort
Science ship

There are 4 standard classes in the KDF;
Battlecruiser
Raptor(escort)
Carrier
Bird of Prey

From the START the VERY FIRST view of a ship with the BoP layout, it's doing Recon work, independent operation with a small crew behind enemy lines.

If they add another class to the KDF, don't you think the Fed side is going to howl bloody murder about the imbalance-just as they tantrumed until they got Carriers?

I'm looking at this mainly from the business angle, you're looking at it mainly from the POV of a fan of Cruisers and a fan of TNG, to the point you won't accept what the show's writers and producers said about why some inconsistencies made it to the small screen.

Business-wise, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to convert a BoP-looking ship into a Bird of Prey with some special ability, than it does to generate another cruiser that probably won't sell after the initial roll-out. We're ALREADY a small market proportional to the Feds, you're asking for a vanity-item. By contrast, the 'better ships' you mentioned-the Oddy still sells, but people aren't buying the Bort, and with good reason-it takes a special kind of self-hatred to spend fifty bucks on a ship with that many things wrong with it, when you have better options available for a lot less. Given the incorporation of Inertia to the game's physics engine, the Bort went from being a 'superthreat' to a bad joke-a bus with flat tyres and bad braking.

What you're proposing isn't any better-a BC with the hull of an escort, no turn advantage, and a seating arrangement that will make it hurt anywhere but ISE because of the hull numbers, that looks like a more manueverable and useful ship, and frankly, your inclusion of a CDR Uni console puts it in direct competition with better designs that already exist.

so where's the profit for Cryptic in your proposal? at least MINE includes the ability to sell it once the event's over, with a good likelihood it will actually see a purchaser's dollar, because it's NEEDED, and it doesn't contribute controversy to do it-unlike your Cruiser, which is redundant in the face of existing ships both free, and paid.

When you look to the lower-tier KDF Cruisers, the weapons are canted forward, not balanced until you get to the hard limit of four forward weapons. the pattern should hold for KDF sci ships-which have six weapons, the same number as Fed sci vessels, in a layout of four forward to rear where Feds try to balance fore and rear armament on theirs (Fed sci ships go three front/three rear).

This preserves factional separation of technologies-if you want a 'globe' layout for your weps, you go Fed, but the Klinks are reputed to be aggressors, so they'd tend to mount more foreward than aft with their armament, even on a "Science" ship...which they wouldn't CALL a "Science" ship. Not even in Treaty talks or propoganda.

The Feds have a "Reconaissance Science vessel"-do you think that name was an accident? The KDF demonstrably uses the BoP for reconaissance duties, duties it is well suited for, meaning that the recon staff at KDF are probably very familiar with the Bird of Prey structure and layout.

Historical example from the real world: in 1873 the U.S. army adopted a breech-loading cartridge rifle on the Allin pattern as used in their 1866 rifle-musket conversions, in spite of better actions, including Repeaters, being commonly available since 1864. The reason for this adoption, was that the allin system was similar enough in looks and function to the muzzle-loaders that the Americans had just fought their civil war with from 1860 to 1865. Sharps and Spencer went out of business due to this-in spite of the Spencer carbine's showing as a cavalry arm during the war, and the Sharps' deserved fame as an accurate rifle of robust construction. MILITARY establishments tend to be solidly conservative when it comes to adopting new innovations.

The KDF has used the K'Tinga in various forms since the 22nd century, right up to the in-game present 23rd century, this is similar to the idea of the USN going and breaking out the predreadnoughts of the Spanish American war, updating them, and building new ones for service, or keeping the Iowa class after 1996. They're EXTREMELY conservative with innovations there-the proof is in the roster of hulls. A grudging acceptance of the need for a dedicated Sci/recon vessel would push the KDF to adopt one-but it's more likely to be based on what they're already using for the recon/intel role: the BoP, because of Bureaucratic Inertia, maybe, or inter-agency rivalries, or just plain "I don't want something new" (in 1860 that was the attitude of the QM corp general on the Union side-he insisted that breechloaders were wasteful and muzzle-loaders good enough.)

upsizing a BoP into a full on Cruiser makes as much sense as putting jet engines on a sopwith camel, and the ships from various Fanon and SFB games really don't enter in here, and shouldn't.

A SciBoP fits the conditions of the GAME, is likely to SELL, and may in fact sell rather WELL, even in a small market like the KDF player base. Another Cruiser that doesn't do anything really better than teh existing cruisers, but probably requires 25 to 50 bucks to buy? not so much.
"when you're out of Birds of Prey, you're out of ships."

Look into Vanilla PvP if you're tired of the endless pursuit of grind, utterly unbalanced selections of geardo-inspired traits, and generally unbalanced and careless 'development' made mostly to turn this game into a second job.