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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,222
# 28
01-30-2013, 12:48 PM
Originally Posted by syberghost View Post
Because CBS has veto power over every substantive decision in the game. They have to have CBS's approval to put ANY ship in. They want to put a T5 Connie in; CBS doesn't let them, so far. CBS wants to limit the number of Jem'hadar attack ships, not Cryptic; Cryptic floated the idea of limiting the number of such ships by putting them in the lockboxes, and CBS agreed.

It's not a pose, it's the whole honest truth; CBS really does exercise that level of control over the game. When the Nebula was introduced, supposedly CBS pulled the plug on the initial release of it with 24 hours of when it was scheduled to launch. It delayed a patch while Cryptic pulled that ship out, after telling people it was coming. Caused a huge ruckus, but CBS wasn't happy with something about it.

But that's not why Cruisers do less damage than Escorts. The reason Cruisers do less damage than Escorts is that if they didn't, hardly anybody would fly Escorts. Why should they? Cruisers would be better at both DPS AND Tanking.

If you want a mix of ships in the game, they have to be better at different things. This game would be incredibly boring if all you saw all day long was the exact same ship going by, with no difference except the windows and the paint.

Cruisers being best at everything works for a TV show, where only one ship matters; it doesn't work for a multiplayer game, where World of Cruisers would just look boring.
If by better at different things, you mean that you only need 5 escorts to play elite STF's, I see what you mean. The game is incredibly boring, as is, because STF play favors going for max dps; hence, one of the reasons for me starting this thread because cruisers aren't as favored as escorts in STF's. That a cruiser can out-tank an escort is uniquely different but is plainly irrelevant since escorts don't even need to depend on cruisers anymore in STF's. How do you address this issue because I have seen you do it yet? Leviathan in the discussion section at least is being a little more realistic by suggesting that borg ships should have special attacks that only cruisers can survive. This would help reinforce the idea that raiders/escorts support and cruisers are still needed to soak up the hardest hits.

Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
I wasn't really arguing the size of the warp core, but the nature of the weapons. With no kinetic force to pure energy weapons, the only real measure of damage is how much heat energy you can apply to your target, and how quickly. A constant application of heat is much more effective than even a rapid but non-constant application.

The real reason that the Defiant is so much more powerful than cruisers is the Revolver/Katana rule -- cannons are cooler than beams, and so they're just better, regardless of any actual basis in reality.

This is coming from someone who loves the Defiant, obviously. I've been flying one almost exclusively for over two years. The pulsed cannons just aren't the most efficient use of energy, realistically.
LOLZZZ!!! So that is the rule that justifies the decision to make escorts have higher dps than cruisers!? It's all so clear now!!! ^_^

Originally Posted by thratch1 View Post
The problem with your example is that, in the case of the Valiant, given Nog's confirmation, the ship they were fighting had three times the "strength" of a Galaxy-class ship. Whether this means hull strength, weapons strength, or both is up for debate, but the takeaway is that this ship supposedly outclassed the Galaxy by a huge margin.

In your second example, Worf stated that the B'rel Bird-of-Prey the Duras sisters were flying was an outdated starship that was mostly taken out of service because of its defect. The Defiant, on the other hand, was a much more modern starship by comparison.

Conversely, we have an episode with Gul Dukat complaining to Sisko about the Maquis being in possession of one of the most heavily-armed warships in the sector (the Defiant). You could argue that he was lying since Cardassians seem to be prone to that, but I'd argue that if he were going to lie, he'd just say "our superior Cardassian ships can take care of the matter" and hope that they did. Instead, he put aside his pride to protect his people by enlisting Sisko's help.
Granted, the b'rel from Generations was a fail of prey, so that wasn't the best example. However, the jemy battleship dreadnought isn't that bad of an example, and it still stands. The odyssey, probably about as powerful in terms of hull and weapons power as that jemy battleship, should be able to easily outclass the defiant/Kling tier 5 escorts in terms of dps.
=^= Starfleet Code Red Message =^= Starfleet intelligence's central network was compromised by an insidious ARC virus. All captains are to avoid contact with the ARC until we can ascertain how dangerous it is. All ships remain on high alert!

Last edited by knuhteb5; 01-30-2013 at 12:54 PM.