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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,335
# 16
01-31-2013, 08:08 AM
Originally Posted by mancom View Post
You managed to completely fail at grasping the point I was trying to make.

The idea is that balance should scale somewhat continuously, i.e. small changes in the start values give small changes in the result. So let's take an extreme example: If you balance for 1000v1000, your ruleset should work with basically no alterations for 999v999, but it might break down in a 10v10 situation.

This is why 5v5 should scale comparatively well to 4v4 (80%) or 6v6 (120%) (special UI issues with STO's team list aside), but it probably doesn't scale all that well down to 1v1 (20%).

On the other hand it takes a certain leap of faith to believe that increasing everything by a factor of 5 (going from 1v1 to 5v5) will work without any problems. Especially since there are mechanics in team situations (2v2 and higher) that are completely non-existent in 1v1: cross-healing, focus fire, target switches.
So not only are you applying a huge change in available raw power (500%), you are simultaneously introducing concepts that inherently cannot be balanced by testing in a 1v1 because they simply don't exist in that situation.

Essentially correct. This in part is because balance doesn't mean equal. If it did well of course it would scale. But it doesn't so there isn't much to discuss here. If you're unsure of this you're welcome to go do some research on the subject. The information is out there, the work has already been done. By game designers. There is a spot where given a certain number of variables you need to balance a certain minimum number of players will satisfy that, and then you can increase that number of players by any amount you wish. But you can't decrease it. Not without decreasing the variables. And that would mean decreasing the type of players.

My suggestion to YOU Sophie is that if you wish to have a balanced 1 v 1 you both agree to fly ships that are exactly equal. 2 escorts of the exact same loadout for example.

This will be great as you try to refute countless man hours of game designers work on this very subject. Likely you'll just say "I'm right and they're wrong" but whatever. Actually I won't be here to watch that show. Seen it before!


EDIT: Why it gets done this way. It gets done this way by being effective and by also being very efficient. If the model is balanced correctly you only ever need to do it once. Anything 'new' that comes along is expected to have all the same buttons and knobs and settings that everything previously did. You crank them all about until they spit out the same value as the rest and you can be pretty sure it's balanced. This is why a nice predictable model is a joy to game designers. And not having that is why STO is currently unbalanced and will remain so until the day that the underlying cause is fixed. Anything added to a broken model is inherently broken itself.
If I don't respond to posts on this forum don't be offended. I don't sub or follow any of them.

Last edited by thissler; 01-31-2013 at 08:45 AM.