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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,946
# 167
02-06-2013, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Lets stick w/a ship a single lt eng slot. Eptx and Epty and doffs to reduce cooldowns. One of the Ept will be shields. This leaves 3 options for the 2nd slot. W/o Doffs it's 2x EPTS. Eitherway, other than TT distribution power, imo, this is the most powerful low end Boff slot and it's why so many want more than 1 low Eng slot.
Yep, 2 is better than one. I tend to run EPtS1, EPtW1, AtS1 or EPtS1, ET1, AtS1. Thing is, with those, there's not going to be much variety beyond that. There are only a couple of the abilities that have any value compared to the others depending on what you're doing.

I mean, you've laid out pretty much what everybody's going to run. 12 different abilities with 6 groups, but pretty much everybody's going to run 2 from the same group. That's an issue. I've just had an idea, that I'm to post as a separate post in this thread.

But in speaking of folks wanting two Eng BOFFs, what happens when you get to a third?I absolutely hate the Negh and Gal-R because of that third Eng Ensign. That's 8 Eng BOFF abilities you need to slot when there's only 14 different abilities in 8 groups.

You're basically looking at:

EPtS1, no higher level of EPtX/ET
EPtW/A1, no higher level of EPtX/ET

At least with only two, you could slot EPtX1/ET1 in the Ensign and go with a EPtX2 in one of the LT slots or if you were trying something, you could even drop EPtX3 in a LCdr slot. With only having two groups, having three Ensign slots kills any variety you may have with the rest of the slots.

Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
For a ship w/just a Lt Sci. HE and TSS will most likely be what's selected w/HE pretty much required for the counter abilities. ST, PH, TBR, TB are reasonable options. But, most will be TSS and HE.
HE is pretty much required. The TSS will depend on the rest of the build. One could easily feel that it's covered elsewhere. If they're missing APO(s), then PH becomes an option. ST, even without the resistance of TSS, is an option because of what it clears. Both TB and TBR are viable options depending on the rest of the build and playstyle. TR for killing spam. Now they can DOFF SS for the recharge debuff. Etc, etc, etc... options galore...even with the HE being pretty much required.

Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
For a ship w/just a Lt Tac TT is nearly required. This leaves APD or APB or BO2 or TSSx or TorpHY or TS or a Mine Pattern. This assumes Doffs for cyclying a single TT copy. Seems Tac has most flexibilty, but really in terms of impact TT is only one significant on ship w/just a Lt Tac. Personally, I tend to fly w/only one TT and use other means either piloting/turning, doffs, other boff abilities to open up other team options as debuff counters.
TT is another one that's all but considered necessary to have at least one. I've managed without it on a single ship with a Eng at the helm. With everything else it had in regard to heals and only having that LT was better served doing something else and was more than manageable.

As for the the LT slot itself - yep, what weapons are you running - are you playing defensive - etc, etc, etc - options galore...even with the TT being all but required.

Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
In the end while Ens Eng options aren't many they are very powerful options as are the Lt options.
What options? At the start of your reply, you basically listed EPtX and EPtY. 2 abilities out of 12, where EPtS is always going to be one of them. So it's really just 1 of 12 abilities, where that ability may very well end up being another EPtS. What options?

Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
Again why does this hurt support cruisers or lead them to be underpowered?
It's not just about Support Cruisers though.

The OP's initial comparison is an Assault Cruiser vs. Patrol Escort. He then goes on to include the Assault, Star, and even the Ambassador in discussing high hull/low turn cruisers. He includes the non-Fed D'kora. He does not include BCs because of their turn.

Even Fed Cruisers is not just about Support Cruisers. I still find it odd that they decided to call the Ambassador a Support Cruiser. If anything, they should have renamed the Star Cruisers as Support Cruisers and made the Ambassador a Star Cruiser. That's neither here nor there though. There are Assault Cruisers, Star Cruisers, a Support Cruiser, and even Dreadnought Cruisers.

It's about the limited options for Ensign Engineering BOFFs, how that affects potential choices for additional ranks, and even how those additional ranked abilities may even pale in comparison to taking a higher rank of the same ability you took at Ensign.

And this is something that, while it has the worst effect on Cruisers/Cmdr-LCdr ships, it's something that's actually affecting all ships...
Maal, Klingon, Mogh - Vegar, Orion, Marauder - R'ebel, Romulan, Haakona
Willard the Rat, Reman, F.T'varo - Rave, J.Trill, Kar'Fi - Mysk, Gorn, Varanus
Kopor, Nausicaan, Guramba - Nivuh, Ferasan, B'rel - Venit, Lethean, M.Qin