Thread: Defense Rating
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 37
02-11-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by p2wsucks View Post
For single Aux2Batt builds, Aux2Damp does fit in the middle of it's cycle. 10 secondsx2 = 20 which is less than the Aux2batt cooldown.
I'll take your word on it; I'm not that familiar with Aux2Batt builds.

That and some of your comments about running a single APO do highlight another problem -- there are way too many ways to reduce cooldowns. That's part of what contributes to defense being broken.

Aux2Damp doesn't stop you from being immobilized anyway though. It's good for PSW and tricobalts, but those don't stop you from moving. If you get stunned you might be able to tank through the damage on the strength of whatever buffs you had up, but if you get immobilized then your defense goes negative and the damage you take is greatly increased.
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PH sharing the same slot w/HE, TSS, and TB makes it harder for an escort to use and easier for Sci oriented ships to use. Also, you left out PSW and TBR are counters for TBs, the primary movement/defense debuff.
TBR doesn't counter TBs, it just pushes them out of range. PSW does break them though. Neither of them have an uptime that can be compared to APO though.

Sci oriented ships still don't get a lot of slots that can be used for PH. The LTC and CDR slots are used for offensive powers, meaning that science ships have 4 LT and ensign slots compared to 2 or 3 on an escort. While they could use PH, they also have TB, HE, TSS, and ST competing. At least one copy each of HE, TSS, and ST is virtually mandatory.Generally speaking, an escort can slip in a copy of PH just as easily, but they just don't need to.

Science Vessels and Cruisers typically use their ensign and LT slots the exact same way escorts do.

You're also ignoring the fact that the uptime on APO makes it so escorts just don't need to use engineering or science slots to counter movement debuffs. While APO isn't up all the time, it's up enough that EM and/or an engine battery can be used to escape. Since other ships don't have that APO shield, they are likely to need to use EM earlier, so they are more likely to get caught while it's on cooldown.
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APO issues aren't from people running dual copies there's an opportunity cost and all APO versions, ie APO1 and APO3, aren't equal. APO issues primarily come from cooldowns allowing just 1 APO to be run as 2, openning up other Boff slots or even getting away w/just 1 Tac Boff depending on the ship and still maintaining 2x APO. The other issue w/APO is the apparently broken defense bonus lasting more than 15sec.
APO doesn't have an opportunity cost in the sense that the engineer and science powers do.

Cruisers only role is healing, but if they use Aux2Damp they lose Aux2SIF -- they need to chose between movement and healing.

Science Vessels are for control, debuffing, and healing -- while PH doesn't lock out their primary powers, it does use a slot that could be used for something that helps the ship's role.

Escorts are for DPS. APO increases DPS in addition to providing protection from movement debuffs. Only escorts have access to a defense that also helps them fill their role.
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Even w/APO's movement debuff counter, if the defense was fixed the target could still be hit w/TSSE much more easily. Human Boffs have hurt the other movement debuff via engine power (VM).
Everybody carries engine batteries. I run TSSE on my science ship (a second copy in addition to the integrated one), and it almost never immobilizes an escort for any appreciable time because they can hold off on using their engine batteries. WIth the long cooldown on TSSE and the disable being a proc chance, they'll usually have their batteries back before it procs a second time.

I usually find cruisers to be the easiest ships to immobilize. Because of their poor turn rates they rarely run at full speed, so between 2xTSSE, GW, and the TBs from my Vesta's runabouts, they'll eventually get stuck. They might get out once, but I can keep trying other things on them. Speed alone can get an escort through quite a bit, and APO pops up like clockwork, so there are only narrow windows in which they might get immobilized to begin with.
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Pressure damage is an issue, but it's an issue across the board. It's not realated to defense, but mostly the Fleet shields, Rep system passives, and Embassy console repairs.
This is true, and it's possible that if pressure damage became relevant again, the higher mobility of escorts wouldn't be such an overwhelming advantage.

The fact that escorts can generally tank as well as other ships (not counting zombie builds that sacrifice their team role in favor of tanking) makes their superior mobility imbalanced. I remember when escorts had to hit and run to function, but for the most part that's gone away.

So now the higher mobility just means that they don't take the same penalties to defense as other ships.