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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 141
# 145
02-12-2013, 12:57 PM
Originally Posted by ussultimatum View Post
I don't disagree that pressure damage deserves a seat at the table, but I think for that pressure damage to really be competitive with spike damage you should be required to focus most of your ship towards dealing it.
I kind of agree, though even ships that aren't focused on damage out to be able to contribute some.

Escorts aren't the best healers or tanks, but if they use 4 or 5 ensign and LT sci and engineering powers on tanking and healing abilities they can do well enough to mostly protect themselves, even if they don't use any consoles to increase the effectiveness of those BOff powers, and run at minimum power to shields and aux. They can even spare some healing for team-mates if they aren't taking fire.

A cruiser or science ship which is not focused on DPS, still ought to be able to DPS as well as an escort can tank or heal -- it shouldn't be much, but it ought to make a noticeable difference occasionally.

The problem is that 6 beams can't scratch most PvP players under any conditions, and 8 might do some damage, but the drain will mean they can't fire at full power most of the time. And nothing less than 125 power is going to do any damage at all.

The other part of the problem is that even if an cruiser or science vessel wants to focus on DPS, they get little if anything out of it.


Engineering has a lot of powers that are in theory offensive, but in practice the only one which adds noticeable damage is EWP. DEM really needs cannons and tactical buffs to do any noticeable damage, boarding party is still not very useful for PvP, and Aceton Beam doesn't have a noticeable effect. EWP is fine -- it's a great power, but a cruiser cannot function as sustained DPS with EWP alone.

DEM should be a good candidate for helping sustained DPS, but it just doesn't do enough. Since it's damage is per pulse, it works best when combined with cannons and CRF. If buffing it would increase it's effectiveness with cannons too much, then maybe it should be beam-only

Consoles are another problem -- no engineering consoles increase DPS on anything. The Weapon power and EPS consoles used to (and used to be virtually required for anyone wanting to do damage) but ever since the power system was reworked they don't do much of anything.

EWP and Aceton Beam can have their damage increased by science consoles, but otherwise Cruisers get their damage the same way escorts do. This means that you need to assume the only console a cruiser has buffing it's damage are the tactical ones.

Basically cruisers just can't be specced to do sustained damage right now. They have a lot of consoles and powers which used to increase damage, or were supposed to help damage but never did, but for the most part those are just wasted investments.

Science Vessels

In some ways they are not as bad off as cruisers, and in some ways they are worse.

All of the science powers need to be reviewed. Most of them work, but aren't very reliable. I'd say that as a general rule, "damage" powers should get a little more focus since they are generally easier to deal with, and science vessels tend to lack damage no matter what they're doing.

The biggest weakness of Science Vessels when it comes to damage is that they realy on science powers which take Aux for most of their damage, but they need to use beams, and beams don't do any damage at less than 125 power.

After driving a Vesta a bit, I think that all science ships probably ought to use Aux for the weapon power. 3 DHCs at 125 power still isn't escort-level damage, but it does add up, and that has me convinced that having science ships flying around with 4-6 beams firing at 125 power all the time probably wouldn't be the end of the world.

I like my Intrepid too, but it just can't do damage the way the Vesta can. I mean, fighters laugh off beam arrays which are fired at <50 weapon power. The Vesta isn't overpowered or ready to replace real DPSers, it just has weapons that don't tickle. Science Vessels in general probably need that treatment.

If you've focused very heavily on healing or debuffs, then I don't see why your overall damage output should be comparable to a ship that can't do any of those things (passive healing and resists notwithstanding, I'm talking about dedicated healing and buffing active use powers like ST3, TSS2/3, ES2/3, Aux to SIF 2/3, etc.)
I can kind of agree with you. But if a cruiser or science ship wants to focus on offense, they give up those things.

If they are using all their high-level powers defensively, then they just ought to be able to build up damage over time, which is currently not an option.