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Career Officer
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 5,418
# 219
02-14-2013, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Option A was that Fleet size would determine the maximum tier for Fleet Holdings. The larger the Fleet, the higher the Fleet Holding Tiers could achieve. This is how many other MMOs gate Guild progression, but we felt that it is artificially limiting to the many active small Fleets in STO.

Option B was to allow Fleets of any size to achieve all tiers of Fleet Holdings. The drawback is that because Fleet sizes range so much, we had to find a balance so that Large Fleets had some challenge, while still allowing small Fleets to achieve all tiers, albeit at a much slower pace. If you are in a Fleet less than 25 players, then it is expected to be more challenging than the norm.

I've suggested it before and recognize it would require tech that did not exist when starbases were added but I prefer what I'd call Option C or the WoW option.

That is to say: I think fleet level/base/holding progression should be tuned to be moderately easy for a fleet of around 20 players but such that characters have a higher personal investment to access fleet rewards.

The way certain other games handle this is by having a Fleet/Guild reputation. It is relatively easy (not trivial but doable easily in under a year) for a fleet to progress its rewards. This may require a fleet to engage in diverse playstyles but is fairly quick.

However, a fleet unlocking access to rewards does not translate into any PLAYER or CHARACTER unlocking access to rewards and the player must somehow champion the fleet/guild or participate in group content with fleetmates to gain personal access to what the fleet has unlocked.

In this version, almost all fleets might reach T5 Starbase in under six months but personally gaining access to fleet rewards would require participation in the actual fleet. (One option here could be a Fleet Reputations which actually consumes Lifetime Fleet Reputation. thus, progress in a Fleet rep is based on fleet loyalty.)

Originally Posted by dastahl View Post
Fact Check:

1. Fleets under 25 are going to have a hard time completing projects = by design.
Wasn't 25 considered a large fleet prior to starbases being added? I think what confuses some is that devs once seemed to indicate that 25+ was the threshold for a "large" fleet whereas the new design seems to suggest that 25 is no longer considered large. This is a shame because I know many people who splintered off with the intent of being active in multiple fleets on multiple alts, hoping that 25 would be considered "large" in the design... and therefore seeking to maximize diversity and presence of theme fleets by deliberately not having more than 25 in a fleet, even when two fleets had mostly the same players behind the keyboard. The idea being to maintain and participate in multiple themed fleets.

I know Caspian has multiple Fed Fleets partly under this expectation and that some of our podcasters advocated AGAINST having more than 25 characters in a fleet to maximize the diversity of fleets in game.

For example: Thirty players assumed that since they were a large fleet, they would max a starbase in 7 months. So they positioned alts in seperate fleets designated for PvP, STFs, roleplay. I sense a lot of buyer's remorse now that 30 is no longer considered large and frustration from players who feel penalized for parking and designating alts as a PvP alt in a labeled PvP Fleet, a Roleplay alt in a Roleplay fleet, etc.

The design seems to discourage fleet s from forming around single game mechanics or gameplay styles, which is traditionally a staple of MMO guild organization. It isn't that the players had no desire to participate in all facets of the game. It's that they wanted designated alts and fleets each directed at a single gameplay approach each.

Ie. My PvP alt does nothing but PvP and is in a fleet that does nothing but PvP. My roleplay alt is in a roleplay fleet where the fleet only organizes for roleplay and nothing else.

I realize a lot has changed but I feel STO has moved from an alt friendly game to penalizing people for alts -- particularly single purpose alts -- and single purpose fleets.