problem with engineers
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Join Date: Aug 2012
02-26-2013, 04:27 PM
I couldn't even begin to guess how many Engineer threads there have been. With both of my mains being Engineers - back when I started, my first toon was an Engineer - there have been more than a few discussion on them...even before F2P, folks were discussing them.
I'll go with my standard - the only thing separating the three Careers in Space are the Five Innate Abilities. I could probably search for the terms "five innate" and find all sorts of posts on the matter.
But I'll repeat the gist of it again, anyway.
Look at the five abilities on Ground. Look at them in Space. That's what's wrong with Engineers.
Look at a Tac on Ground and in Space.
Look at a Sci on Ground and in Space.
Look at an Eng on Ground and in Space.
Tac's "big" difference? Security Escort vs. Go Down Fighting.
It's the closest to what it is, regardless of where it is with 4 of 5.
Sci...gives up a PBAoE Placate for SNB in Space? Really? Where did that come from? Why not a PBAoE Placate in Space as well? Nanoprobe on Ground - Photonic Fleet in Space? Hrmm...yeah...okay...3 of 5.
Eng though...Eng...sheesh, am I right? 2 of 5 come close. They give up a Barrier (can be found in the C-Store) for a power boost (can be found all over the place). They give up a Pet (can be found in various other locations) for drain resistance (can be found in the skill tree or in gear). They give up a Lance (can be found in various ships from the C-Store) for a broken heal that doesn't always repair disabled subsystems (can be addressed in multiple ways - and stop for a moment, consider how much healing and resistance you can get out of an AtS3 while waiting on that MW CD, eh?).
But wait, that's not really the gist of the issue - that's more of a personal thing, right?
It's that the Engineer is not really a "team friendly" Career in PvP. It's got some nifty additional survival abilities if you want to spend the points in Threat and be the Tank in PvE...but uh...PvP? Even the majority of the suggestions where folks want to "fix" the Engineer is really just a case of wanting to make them the Healer.
Step back though - take a look at the three Careers.
Look at the Ground abilities.
Tac: Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Pets), Offensive Support (Buff)
Sci: Offensive Support (Debuff), Self Defense (Placate), Defensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Defensive Support (Buff)
Eng: Self Defense (Buff), Defensive Support (Object), Defensive/Offensive Support (Pet), Offense (Attack), Defensive Support (Buff)
Tac: 4x Offensive Support and 1x Self Offense
Sci: 2x Offensive Support, 2x Defensive Support, 1x Self Defense
Eng: 2x Defensive Support, 1x Defensive/Offensive Support, 1x Self Defense, 1x Offense
Get the gist there?
Tac has 4x Offensive Support and 1x Self Offense.
Sci has 2x Offensive/2x Defensive and 1x Self Defense
Eng basically has 2 Defense/2x Offensive and 1x Self Defense
Sci is Off/Def while Eng is Def/Off...while Tac is just Off.
A nice mix of Offense, Off/Def, and Def/Off... bazinga - a team, eh?
Let's move to Space.
Tac: Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Buff), Self Offense (Buff), Offensive Support (Buff)
Sci: Offensive Support (Debuff), Offensive Support (Debuff), Defensive Support (Buff), Offensive Support (Pets), Defensive Support (Buff)
Eng: Self Defense (Buff), Self Defensive/Offensive (Buff), Self Defensive/Offensive (Buff), Self Defense (Heal), Defensive Support (Buff)
So we're looking at...
Tac has 3x Offensive Support and 2x Self Offense
Sci has 3x Offensive Support and 2x Defensive Support
Eng has...WTF happened to Eng? 1x Defensive Support and basically 4x Self Defense.
On Ground we had a nice mix - Tac Off, Sci Off/Def, and Eng Def/Off. We move into Space and suddenly the Engineer is a Tank? He or she is no longer the Def/Off guy, they're a Tank? WTF?
It's kind of funny when you look at Ground and see where the Taunt for a tank actually is... Tac. Whether in a Kit or on a Boff. Draw Aggro.
But somehow the Eng ended up the Space Tank? WTF?
If somebody wants to be the Space Tank, let them grab a tanky ship - put points in Space Threat - and grab a healer or two. There's no reason for a Career to be forced into that position because of ability selection.
Making EPS and MW "castable" on others doesn't fix the problem, either - imo.
Want to fix Engineers? Then look at Ground. Look at how both Tac and Sci basically kept their identity and let Engineers keep their identity.
Engineers should either be:
2x Defensive Support, 2x Offensive Support, 1x Self Defense
3x Defensive Support, 2x Offensive Support
Then you'll still have your:
Oh... a team.
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