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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,241
# 297
03-20-2013, 11:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
You using FAW and torpedo spread abilities is why then entire group came after you. Since you generated the most threat against a group that other folks were not targetting, the NPCs will continue to attack you. If someone were to attack a different target in the group that you aggro'ed, it would break off and attack someone else. I have seen this happen many times.
No, you don't get it. It was my beam array (blue mk 11 since I just use min wep power anyway) in FAW once and no torp spread (full beam voquv..torp voquv is the no-threat control version) vs. my entire team's damage output including several escorts spewing cannon volley fire nonstop.

I kept the hate on all of them. If no threat control that would not happen. Thing is, if threat control only added threat per weapon strike then each individual npc the faw hit once or twice (very,very low damage) would have inflicted a relatively decent amount of threat. However, when an escort spews cannon at said individual npc and shreds it to pieces the hate is definitely greater than my beam array plus feedback pulse combined. Heck one single damage hit from the cannon outdamages all my weapons plus feedback.

This and other instances where I observe the npc behavior is why I say threat control does seem to put heavy hate bonus on the entire group. If my FAW hits multiples in the group their hate gets shared and stacked on each other.. a LOT LOT more than if i had no threat control and just FAW'd them. Its enough hate to keep them all firing at me and not my super-damage escorts firing aoe cannon at them.

Think of it this way:

No threat control, 1 beam hit on single target= 10 hate to individual npc, 2 hate shared to its group.
threat control 9, 1 beam hit on single target = 40 hate to individual npc, 40 hate shared to its group.

with FAW the multiple beam strikes stack on the individual and stacks equally to the entire group when there is threat control.
with FAW the multiple beam strikes stack on the individual and a fraction of that stacked hate is shared between the group.

Result? the entire group hates the threat control player a lot more than one single, very high damage escort hitting it and its friends in AOE.

But.. if you hit only a single target of the group with threat control 9 the hate you generate and that it shares with the group would not overcome the hate from the high damage aoe escort. Only when the threat control ship fires aoe is when it does.

Quote:
In fact, even before I respeced my characters to put some points in Threat Control, I would pull aggro from one target and not others from that group. Other times, I've kited the NPCs while others got free hits on the ship for a good amount of time. I don't use scatter/spread abilities that often and do more single target damage. Perhaps that is the difference (which is also why I question the statement that Threat generation affects the entire group).
Thats because you're hitting just one. the shared aggro may not have been enough to pull the other npcs off the heavier damage they are receiving. But if you hit all of them with low damage and threat control you become their primary source of hate. This doesnt happen if you just had no threat control... your single target-pulling hate proves it.

Quote:
This is the best trolling DOFF ever. I don't want to waste EC on the DOFF, but using it on your team mates out of spite sounds like a lot of fun.
Yep always a hoot to keep it on the guy that messed up everything. in the end his hull is a nice long list of injuries XD

Quote:
Are your team mates hitting the other NPCs with spread abilities? That would seem like the likely reason why the other NPCs change their targets. In Hive, I've had a Tactical Cube I wasn't firing at come after me. Since no one else was hitting it, it continued to attack me (it initially started attacking me because I was the closest target or they killed my team mates before it got to me). Once someone else started attacking it, it immediately changed it's target.
Of course they are. when was the last time you saw escorts in stf not using aoe?

Quote:
Are you referring to the link I posted (which isn't my chart, by the way)? On my B'rel, which I recently respeced, I have, I believe, 6 points in Threat Control and Hull Plating, and 4 points in Armor Reinforcements. My total resistance is about 27%+ against energy and about 25%+ against kinetic with one Neutronium Alloy mk XI blue console. Before that, it was, I believe, around 23%+ for each. With a second Neutronium Alloy, the amount is more than when I was maxed out in Hull Plating and Armor Reinforcement. The difference wasn't as great between one and two Neutronium Alloys, but the end result was still more.

FYI, for those who don't know, Neutronium Alloys have diminishing returns the more you stack. Also, the greater your passive resistance, the less effective the Neutronium Alloys become. I tested this while I was in the process of respeccing.
A minimal increase in resists (im not saying it doesnt!) for the expenditure of points and added pain coming into your bird of prey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shookyang View Post
While the initial aggro may be true, there is no evidence that having Threat Control or high threat generation would mean that the entire group would only go after the player that is targeting one NPC in the group, and not go after other team mates that are hitting the other NPCs that are targeting them or hitting them with AOE abilities.
My tank version voquv is proof enough. Like I said, I would get their hate completely to the point where my team just sat in space firing like crazy. The only times they got hit was when the tac cube did an AOE. Spheres all focused on me exclusively the entire team. Now, as evidence? min power beam arrays on faw1 and feedback pulse combined do less than 3k dmg per target per firing cycle. An escort does ten times that much per cycle in aoe. The voquv with threat control held all hate. In contrast, my torp spread/plasma bomber voquv that does insanely higher aoe damage than the tank voquv, hits all targets for over 10k dmg per volley.... loses aggro constantly to these same escorts firing aoe cannon. All because it does not have threat control.
http://media.tumblr.com/160cacdb395f8340dac90864182ebe16/tumblr_inline_mx9yxhItkb1qg9pkt.jpg

Last edited by cmdrskyfaller; 03-20-2013 at 11:44 AM.