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Captain
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,123
# 298
03-20-2013, 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
No, you don't get it. It was my beam array (blue mk 11 since I just use min wep power anyway) in FAW once and no torp spread (full beam voquv..torp voquv is the no-threat control version) vs. my entire team's damage output including several escorts spewing cannon volley fire nonstop.

I kept the hate on all of them. If no threat control that would not happen. Thing is, if threat control only added threat per weapon strike then each individual npc the faw hit once or twice (very,very low damage) would have inflicted a relatively decent amount of threat. However, when an escort spews cannon at said individual npc and shreds it to pieces the hate is definitely greater than my beam array plus feedback pulse combined. Heck one single damage hit from the cannon outdamages all my weapons plus feedback.

This and other instances where I observe the npc behavior is why I say threat control does seem to put heavy hate bonus on the entire group. If my FAW hits multiples in the group their hate gets shared and stacked on each other.. a LOT LOT more than if i had no threat control and just FAW'd them. Its enough hate to keep them all firing at me and not my super-damage escorts firing aoe cannon at them.

Think of it this way:

No threat control, 1 beam hit on single target= 10 hate to individual npc, 2 hate shared to its group.
threat control 9, 1 beam hit on single target = 40 hate to individual npc, 40 hate shared to its group.

with FAW the multiple beam strikes stack on the individual and stacks equally to the entire group when there is threat control.
with FAW the multiple beam strikes stack on the individual and a fraction of that stacked hate is shared between the group.

Result? the entire group hates the threat control player a lot more than one single, very high damage escort hitting it and its friends in AOE.

But.. if you hit only a single target of the group with threat control 9 the hate you generate and that it shares with the group would not overcome the hate from the high damage aoe escort. Only when the threat control ship fires aoe is when it does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Thats because you're hitting just one. the shared aggro may not have been enough to pull the other npcs off the heavier damage they are receiving. But if you hit all of them with low damage and threat control you become their primary source of hate. This doesnt happen if you just had no threat control... your single target-pulling hate proves it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
My tank version voquv is proof enough. Like I said, I would get their hate completely to the point where my team just sat in space firing like crazy. The only times they got hit was when the tac cube did an AOE. Spheres all focused on me exclusively the entire team. Now, as evidence? min power beam arrays on faw1 and feedback pulse combined do less than 3k dmg per target per firing cycle. An escort does ten times that much per cycle in aoe. The voquv with threat control held all hate. In contrast, my torp spread/plasma bomber voquv that does insanely higher aoe damage than the tank voquv, hits all targets for over 10k dmg per volley.... loses aggro constantly to these same escorts firing aoe cannon. All because it does not have threat control.
But Threat Control on it's own against a single target in a group will not necessarily keep you in the groups target. That is my original point several posts before.

It makes sense that if you have high Threat Control and using AOE abilities, you're going to keep aggro on yourself until someone on your team creates enough threat generation on their own to get an NPC to change its target.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
Of course they are. when was the last time you saw escorts in stf not using aoe?
I think this is the source of our disagreement. I rarely use AOE attacks in my B'rel or Fleet Defiant. I prefer maximum damage on a single target to kill that target quickly. Since others are using their AOE attacks, the next target in the group will be easier for me to finish off in one volley with minimal buffs.

So, from my observations as someone who only targets single targets, Threat Control does not increase threat generation of the entire group for a sustained amount of time. Which is why I'm not concerned about a single NPC targeting me (if it's the invisible torpedo, I'm space dust either way, as I still manage to generate enough aggro without Threat Control).

Quote:
Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller View Post
A minimal increase in resists (im not saying it doesnt!) for the expenditure of points and added pain coming into your bird of prey.
I'd prefer not to use up too many console spaces for Alloys. I used to run two consoles, but the amount I was getting from the second console was about 8% (this was before I respeced...after, it was about 6%).

But, I suppose if you are using AOE attacks as your primary attack, then I could see how Threat Control would be a bad idea. Since I don't use AOE attacks, it's not as big a concern for me.