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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Fact is simply this: Even if you won half the matches as Federation, which you don't, PvP would still be unenjoyable.

The reason is very simple. There is no fun in being on the defensive by default. The only valid strategy the federation can persue is to all get into a big pile and wait to be attacked.

That isn't fun, even if you do win.

So not just for balances sake, but also for the sake of having a fun game cloak needs to get nerfed BAD. Federation ships need to have ways to pick fights, go on the offensive, gain the initiative, and in order to do that they have to be able to hunt down cloaked ships and be fast enough to catch them.

Ultimately it simply doesn't matter how the fight played out when the "fed ball" gets attacked. Even if they win 50% of the time, as long as that's the only thing Federation can do, PvP in this game sucks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Out of curiosity have you encountered many science ships in your PvP battles? I fly mine into PvP sometimes, and I am normally the only one their. But the science ship's ability to detect cloak gives the feds some edge.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-03-2010, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagaciouszzzz View Post
Out of curiosity have you encountered many science ships in your PvP battles? I fly mine into PvP sometimes, and I am normally the only one their. But the science ship's ability to detect cloak gives the feds some edge.
I acctually fly exclusively science ships, and I can tell you from experience that decloaking only works at between 2-3 km range, so it does absolutely nothing for you.

If a Klingon sees your fleet and decides he doesn't want to fight you, he just turns away and waits for his buddies while 20km away. No chance of being decloaked and killed there.

If a Klingon fleet decides to attack you, they come to within 5-10km, drop cloak and start picking off targets. No chance of being decloaked and killed here either.

Science ships do not give the federation an edge.

Furthermore, even if Science ships did provide a wide bubble of cloak detection for your fleet, like let's say 15km in every direction. It still wouldn't help you to go on the offensive, because Klingon ships are not only stealthy, they are also faster than federation ships, so they could still linger just outside detection range for however long they please without ever posing a target to you. Of course you'd have it a little easier to fight them than now if they had to cross a 5km threshhold to get to attack position while uncloaked, but on the overall, what matters in PvP isn't your HP or your damage or anything like that, it's your ability to pick fights, go on the offensive, gain innitiative and control the engagement. If you're not stealthy and you're not quick you can't do that.

It's kind of like those Gorn Augments you fight. Sure, if you just stand there they will pummel you into oblivion, but if you simply back off, and dance around them they go down eventually.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-03-2010, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
I acctually fly exclusively science ships, and I can tell you from experience that decloaking only works at between 2-3 km range, so it does absolutely nothing for you.

If a Klingon sees your fleet and decides he doesn't want to fight you, he just turns away and waits for his buddies while 20km away. No chance of being decloaked and killed there.

If a Klingon fleet decides to attack you, they come to within 5-10km, drop cloak and start picking off targets. No chance of being decloaked and killed here either.

Science ships do not give the federation an edge.

Furthermore, even if Science ships did provide a wide bubble of cloak detection for your fleet, like let's say 15km in every direction. It still wouldn't help you to go on the offensive, because Klingon ships are not only stealthy, they are also faster than federation ships, so they could still linger just outside detection range for however long they please without ever posing a target to you. Of course you'd have it a little easier to fight them than now if they had to cross a 5km threshhold to get to attack position while uncloaked, but on the overall, what matters in PvP isn't your HP or your damage or anything like that, it's your ability to pick fights, go on the offensive, gain innitiative and control the engagement. If you're not stealthy and you're not quick you can't do that.

It's kind of like those Gorn Augments you fight. Sure, if you just stand there they will pummel you into oblivion, but if you simply back off, and dance around them they go down eventually.
i would suggest you might enjoy the game more s a sci guy if you asked around and foudnout how the better sci guys equip their ships and what skills they use. I say this becasue if you are in a sci ship and only detecting cloaked klingons at 2-3 range then you are doing something wrong since startign in tier 2 sci ship can dect us at around 10 km when they are scanning
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-03-2010, 07:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sagaciouszzzz View Post
Out of curiosity have you encountered many science ships in your PvP battles? I fly mine into PvP sometimes, and I am normally the only one their. But the science ship's ability to detect cloak gives the feds some edge.
thanks... atleast some feds have some brains and try to think of tactics instead of qq on forums.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-03-2010, 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraWolf View Post
thanks... atleast some feds have some brains and try to think of tactics instead of qq on forums.
If you had read the response you would understand why his point is invalid, and also you wouldn't look like a total mook for accusing people of not having brains when in fact you're the one who's misinformed.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-03-2010, 07:37 PM
um i dont pug much as fed but get 3 cruisers who know what they are doing togther and you can keep sci/escorts alive and have 80-90% win ratios as fed so learn to play please then cry about somthing valid
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-03-2010, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Fact is simply this: Even if you won half the matches as Federation, which you don't, PvP would still be unenjoyable.

The reason is very simple. There is no fun in being on the defensive by default. The only valid strategy the federation can persue is to all get into a big pile and wait to be attacked.

That isn't fun, even if you do win.

So not just for balances sake, but also for the sake of having a fun game cloak needs to get nerfed BAD. Federation ships need to have ways to pick fights, go on the offensive, gain the initiative, and in order to do that they have to be able to hunt down cloaked ships and be fast enough to catch them.

Ultimately it simply doesn't matter how the fight played out when the "fed ball" gets attacked. Even if they win 50% of the time, as long as that's the only thing Federation can do, PvP in this game sucks.
I don't normally do shameless plugs, but you sound like the kind of guy that might like my idea: A no cloak Klingon tank
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-03-2010, 06:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rothnang
Fact is simply this: Even if you won half the matches as Federation, which you don't, PvP would still be unenjoyable.

The reason is very simple. There is no fun in being on the defensive by default. The only valid strategy the federation can persue is to all get into a big pile and wait to be attacked.

That isn't fun, even if you do win.

So not just for balances sake, but also for the sake of having a fun game cloak needs to get nerfed BAD. Federation ships need to have ways to pick fights, go on the offensive, gain the initiative, and in order to do that they have to be able to hunt down cloaked ships and be fast enough to catch them.

Ultimately it simply doesn't matter how the fight played out when the "fed ball" gets attacked. Even if they win 50% of the time, as long as that's the only thing Federation can do, PvP in this game sucks.
So you are admitting that its not OP (since there are fed groups that clean up regularly) but that you just don't like it?

So can you do something other than complain? Offer a positive solution that doesn't require making Klingons your own personal easy mode shooting gallery? Some Klingon's have offered some good suggestions, do you bother to offer constructive ideas? All I see from you is constant whine...

Man up. Offer a solution other than a nerf. I dare you.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-03-2010, 06:20 PM
they could get rid of our cloak altogether and it wouldnt worry me(hardly ever use it anyway) so long as we get hull/shield strength in line with feds along with easily obtainable gear and ship variation at tier 5
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