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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Ok here is a question. And i guess many people will call me stupid thanks to it, but hell i'll ask it any way.

Is it, or is it not allright to play an Ekosian?

For those wh do not know what an Ekosian is, here is a brief explanation, followed by a link to a ST wiki where you can read more of them.

Ekosians are a humanoid spiecis first encountered by Captain James T. Kirk in the year 2268 (The episode pattern Of Force, TOS). The race was in a war with its sister planet Zeon in what is best described as an extermination war. It is revealed that a federation cultural observer, John Gilles have broken the prime directive and taken a leading role for the Ekosians. In this he has turned them into Nazis.
His goal however was not to make them cruel, merely copying the Nazis effectiveness and power. However the situation turned sour when the commander Melacon assumed possition as Deputy Furer, keeping John Gilles heavily drugged while he assumed command behind the throne, thus making the Ekosian as mad as the German Nazis were.
However thanks to Kirk, Spock and McCoy, Melacon is dethroned, the war is stopped in the last second and the situation is defused. The Ekosians and the Zoens swear an alliance and the Ekosians turn the evil beliefs that was Melacons goal, into what was John Gilles dream, a civilisation good to the heart, but effective and strong as the nazies. In the ending they, and i quote from the series "Now we'll start to live the way the Furer ment us to live", proving that they will not abandon their ways, just correct them and make them to the better.
Spock even comments that they, both the Ekonians and the Zenons will one day be a fine addition to the Federation.

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Ekosian

So the question is, as short as it can be said: Is it allowed to play a good space nazi?
Some of you will probably wonder "Why do he want to do that?
Simple answers: I like a lot of aspects of the Nazis. Dont take me wrong, they were evil *******s, and their beliefs of the supremacy of the fatherland was beyond stupid. But as John Gilles comment, earth have never been so effective as under the nazi rule. i love the uniforms, even though i guess they are impossible to make in STO, but still.
Three, how awesome isnt it with the contradiction of Good Nazis?

Then again, i dont want to be banned, and i certainly dont want to offend people, so im asking the question here. Is it allright? What do you think?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-14-2010, 06:37 AM
If you want to create a Starfleet of Klingon aligned officer who comes from Ekos that isn't going to cause you issues, but roleplaying as a "Nazi" will most likely cause issues.

The whole point of that eipisode was that it wasn't possible to seperate the brutality and discrimination from the effiency of the movement. It was a failed experiment. So you have to ask yourself wouldn't a person from Ekos 300 years later have changed dramatically from that failed experiment in their past? Certainly Earth has evolved past it in the Star Trek universe.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-14-2010, 06:54 AM
Indeed it have evolved and changed. Not arguing that. and no the point isnt to go sieg hail-ing everything i see. The interesting question however to what have it evolved. What will be left in the society from that part of history? Take Feodal japan as an example. The Samurai were far from good guys. Sure there were the ocational good guy among them, but most of them were powerhungry evil *******s who opressed the people, extorted (Is that the right word) the weak and didnt value the life of the common man more that what work he could do for the Samurai lord. But the Samurai have been a huge part of the social evoluton of japan. Their beliefs in honor, even if the core meaning of them were to guarantee obidience and supremacy, have greatly affected the japanese people for the better. The crime rate is among the lowest in the world, schooling is about the highest quality of the world. I know there are bad parts of it, so dont go bugger me with "Its not as perfect as it seems." but facts are facts. bad things brought good effects. My question, how will the Nazi time of the Ekonians have affected them in the sociological evolutoion. I strongly think that is an interesting question, and that it would be just as interesting to roleplay such a race. Far more interesting that, say Vulcans with their "This is logical, that is illogical. Me being logical is far more illogical than logically possible."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-14-2010, 07:15 AM
I'd think it best to steer away from stuff like that, unless there is a canon example of Ekosians as they are in the 25th Century and they have indeed evolved beyond the Nazi themes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-14-2010, 07:21 AM
Is it just me, or isnt it funny how your probably not allowed to play Good nazis, yet you are allowed, and even encuraged ((Thanks to collectors editon)) to play a good Borg, whos race goal is to destroy all life as we know it, only keeping the DNA of the strongest races?
yea yea Borg never realy existed, exept Björn Borg, and he wasnt evil, only a *******, and nazis did exist and its a sencitive subject and all that.
Just saying. Borg, kill everyone = Ok.
Dominion, Enslave all non-shapeshifter lifeform = Ok
Nazis, kill a few millions = Not Ok.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-14-2010, 07:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamiSilver
Is it just me, or isnt it funny how your probably not allowed to play Good nazis, yet you are allowed, and even encuraged ((Thanks to collectors editon)) to play a good Borg, whos race goal is to destroy all life as we know it, only keeping the DNA of the strongest races?...
Yah, it is funny... but the issue here is that it's bringing into play things that actually occurred in Earth history (our history), so some things can become questionable or hurtful.

It's what you've got to love about Star Trek, though... it is (in theory, at least) willing to be provocative, but toward decent, thoughtful ends.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-14-2010, 07:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KamiSilver
My question, how will the Nazi time of the Ekonians have affected them in the sociological evolutoion. I strongly think that is an interesting question, and that it would be just as interesting to roleplay such a race. Far more interesting that, say Vulcans with their "This is logical, that is illogical. Me being logical is far more illogical than logically possible."
I'd say go for it. What's wrong with a people learning from their past mistakes? (Or can't one role-play a German or, for that matter, if you look at history long enough, perhaps any race?). Star Trek is all about advancing into the future. Besides, like you said, it has Spock's imprimatur.

Speaking of which, you want a people who learned from their past mistakes -- try Vulcans. Hmm -- I don't remember clearly the episode you mentioned, but perhaps Spock spoke up as he did because he recognized something from Vulcan history (In TOS, Vulcan has a sister-planet as well) in the goings-on with the Ekosians.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-14-2010, 07:54 AM
Kami: Well, yeah. It's a matter of sensitivity.

If Borg did exist and had wiped out several nations, I suspect playing a 'good Borg' would be just as objectionable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-14-2010, 08:07 AM
You aren't playing a "good" Borg, you're playing a liberated Borg. As in you were assimilated, then just like Picard and Seven of Nine, disconnected from the Collective and most or all of your implants removed. That's a far cry from Nazis who do exist and stand for hate and bigotry in the real world.

While I seriously doubt anybody would cry foul if your character backstory explained your intense hatred of Klingons or Cardassians or Romulans. It is canon after all - Kirk, Worf, O'Brien, even Picard and his hatred of the Borg. I highly suggest you leave the real-world politics out of the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-14-2010, 08:09 AM
Well thing is.. I dont realy like Vulcans. Sure Spock was an entertaining character, but i have pretty much the same problem with Vulcans as i have with Jedis in Star Wars. You cant be "Good" if you lack feelings as much as the are suppose to do. "Logical" decitions are often far from "Good" decitions. Rather the contrary. Life is harsh, hard and cruel when you break it down, and it is thanks to wild shots, guesses and foolhardy decitions that we make it worth living for. logical choises are often "evil" even if i dislike using that term. Shall we save the old and sick? No, that is illogical. They will only burden the society. unless they have knowledge we need. But then the priority isnt to keep them alive, rather extract the knowledge. shall we go to war with this peaceloving planet? Logically yes, if they have resorces we need. since they do not know war, the victory is almost certain, and we will benefit more from exterminating the other race, than sharing the planet with them. Unless, again they have something We need and cannot get ourselves.

That is logic for you. Thus i do not like races who bace their thinking around logic instead of feelings. sure feelings have downsides, aggression, envy, hate. But we need those too. Those without feelings have something much worse. Ambivalence ´before life. Statistics before love and passion.
but i have ranted on enough about that.
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