Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Looking at the timeline on MMOs, reading the posts of a great many folks whining on these boards, and understanding the lure of the Star Trek license, it's pretty obvious where a lot of the negativity comes from in this game. We've got a few groups of people here:

a) MMO Veterans from years back, who've been through the betas and the bugs and the updates and the "updates," and who understand that MMOs are vastly different from other types of games in that they aren't released as complete, self-contained gaming experiences. They understand that MMO companies all make the choice of exactly WHAT gets left out at release, and no one is 100% happy.

b) MMO Veterans who have allowed their years of playing one particular game spoil them, and cause them to forget the buggy, empty, boring opening periods... which weren't quite as boring to them back then, simply because it was their first time going through it. Now these folks expect every game to release at the level of an older, more developed game which they see through rose-colored glasses.

c) People who are not new to MMOs, but rather have only played MMOs AFTER release... so this is their first RELEASE MMO. As a result, they've never had to see the "sausage factory" before, so to speak. They're used to coming in after the work is done, and they mistakenly believe that's how it was from day one.

d) People who are brand new to MMOs, who will eventually be shuffled into one of the three categories above--not based on the game, but based on how the COMMUNITY makes them feel. Think back to your first game, especially those that played pre-Vent or TeamSpeak. It was that in-game guild chat that defined your feelings as a player.

So, let's not waste any further time attempting to reason with Category B or C people, while they focus on trying to poison Category D. Find those Category D people, help them out, and you'll find there are plenty of them to replace any of the B/C people still haunting these halls. Offer CONSTRUCTIVE criticism--which means criticize it, but also provide an alternative or potential fix, not just some self-important ultimatum or "prophecy" of doom.

Signed,

Not a ST or Cryptic Fanboy, but an MMO Fanboy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-15-2010, 05:01 AM
At least Cryptic isn't dropping me into the middle of the ocean to drown to death and not able to retrive my corpse ala WOW
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3 Have you seen my Corpse?
02-15-2010, 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staran View Post
At least Cryptic isn't dropping me into the middle of the ocean to drown to death and not able to retrive my corpse ala WOW
This reminds me so much of an experience I had in Everquest. I think it was summed up by the Electric Fun Factory by this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKDkvy9sKuY

-Keppoch
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-15-2010, 08:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keppoch
This reminds me so much of an experience I had in Everquest. I think it was summed up by the Electric Fun Factory by this song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKDkvy9sKuY

-Keppoch
Everquest really could get away with bad stuff.
I remember thier expansion that was on a moon.
Had a bunch of zones in it, but the zones where empty.
The content was "coming".
I quit.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-15-2010, 08:26 AM
Btw, the OP has forgot another group of players:

The old fashioned players, maybe older than the average MMO player. Those people who have played a lot of singleplayer games and love Star Trek. They are new to MMOs. So they are naive enough to think that if they are charged the money for a full and finished game they get it, and they are naive enough to think that paying 15 bugs per month grants them monthly AddOns like you can buy in the store. They arent familiar with the "throw your money away" thinking because they've being teached that pricing has something to do with quality.



This is my group. I really thought i could expect a finished game if i pay the money i would have been charged for every other game in the store. This finished game would be expanded and therefore i pay the monthly fee.

But truth hit me hard when OB started and i was told all the way that i cannot expect an MMO that i bought for more than 30 be finished in any way. I do not understand this kind of thinking. In my oppinion it has something to do with the fact that people here in Europe and US have too much money, including kids.

I mean, you wouldnt go into the store and buy a book and they tell you: "Oh, we charge you the price of a normal book, but only half of the pages are written by now, the others are all white. If you want to read more than please buy the other pages later on."

I think the Retailers should be honest and say: "We have here STO, this is the ground version. It will be a very great game and we think you will have fun with it. But its not finished yet, so you pay 15 now and a monthly fee."
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
02-15-2010, 08:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconeeFalconee
Btw, the OP has forgot another group of players:

The old fashioned players, maybe older than the average MMO player. Those people who have played a lot of singleplayer games and love Star Trek. They are new to MMOs. So they are naive enough to think that if they are charged the money for a full and finished game they get it, and they are naive enough to think that paying 15 bugs per month grants them monthly AddOns like you can buy in the store. They arent familiar with the "throw your money away" thinking because they've being teached that pricing has something to do with quality.



This is my group. I really thought i could expect a finished game if i pay the money i would have been charged for every other game in the store. This finished game would be expanded and therefore i pay the monthly fee.

But truth hit me hard when OB started and i was told all the way that i cannot expect an MMO that i bought for more than 30 be finished in any way. I do not understand this kind of thinking. In my oppinion it has something to do with the fact that people here in Europe and US have too much money, including kids.

I mean, you wouldnt go into the store and buy a book and they tell you: "Oh, we charge you the price of a normal book, but only half of the pages are written by now, the others are all white. If you want to read more than please buy the other pages later on."

I think the Retailers should be honest and say: "We have here STO, this is the ground version. It will be a very great game and we think you will have fun with it. But its not finished yet, so you pay 15 now and a monthly fee."
Well computer games are not books that much I guess is obvious so you cannot really compare the two. In terms of computer games none are ever truly finished any sense. Most games before release have up to 40% of the content removed before release ofthen because they cannot get it working in time. For standard games this is the only option because in theory they have a one time hit to get it out. With MMORPGS they can leave the unfinished parts in to be corrected later if required.

The other part it is very hard to test all aspects of the game even with beta's. Until you go live it is very hard to know how it will perform because people in beta play very differently to live. Plus just the vast numbers of people mean the combined out will be different.

So it is just the way MMORPG's are I cannot see that ever changing they will over time always be in a state of not beening finished. However this does not mean to say that the game is not playable.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-15-2010, 12:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staran View Post
At least Cryptic isn't dropping me into the middle of the ocean to drown to death and not able to retrive my corpse ala WOW
LMAO. I remember that.

It is true especially with a lot of the WoW people. Most do not realize just how bad WoW was in the first, I would say 3 to 6 months, but hey it worked out and look at it now. STO could do the same and even other MMO's if and only if:

1. People stop thing of a MMO that is newly released is going to be spit and polished like WoW and EVE is now.

2. The "fan base", if you will, is there to keep these going with valid and constructive input.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-15-2010, 01:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parrdacc View Post
LMAO. I remember that.

It is true especially with a lot of the WoW people. Most do not realize just how bad WoW was in the first, I would say 3 to 6 months, but hey it worked out and look at it now. STO could do the same and even other MMO's if and only if:

1. People stop thing of a MMO that is newly released is going to be spit and polished like WoW and EVE is now.

2. The "fan base", if you will, is there to keep these going with valid and constructive input.
Personally I think that some of these people who claim to have been in WoW during CB/OB/launch are not telling the truth. Hating on things when you're anonymous is easy (and it makes you "cool" in the eyes of other kids). So when a person has crossed into haterville, what's a little lie about their involvement in WoW going to hurt? I was there for all 3 of those phases and what they claim it was like does not match my recollection AT ALL. I couldn't even play for days on end after launch. The game had patch days where they couldn't even get the game to work after bringing it down for maintenance, and in some cases it stayed down well into the next day. There was that annoying loot animation bug, the drowning thing, broken quests, no PvP battle grounds... and on and on. Did I mention LAG? It's my opinion that those who claim otherwise are just lying, anonymous kids who use exaggerated hatred to gain the attention they are missing in their real lives. Drama queens.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-15-2010, 01:18 PM
I was not on WoW when it was first launched, but I had friends who were. They were mostly unable to play the game on Monday thru Wednesday because the servers and game were so buggy and laggy the day before patch, patch day and the day after patches. They also remember the drowning bug and the loot bug quite well.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-15-2010, 01:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heliotrope View Post
Personally I think that some of these people who claim to have been in WoW during CB/OB/launch are not telling the truth. Hating on things when you're anonymous is easy (and it makes you "cool" in the eyes of other kids). So when a person has crossed into haterville, what's a little lie about their involvement in WoW going to hurt? I was there for all 3 of those phases and what they claim it was like does not match my recollection AT ALL. I couldn't even play for days on end after launch. The game had patch days where they couldn't even get the game to work after bringing it down for maintenance, and in some cases it stayed down well into the next day. There was that annoying loot animation bug, the drowning thing, broken quests, no PvP battle grounds... and on and on. Did I mention LAG? It's my opinion that those who claim otherwise are just lying, anonymous kids who use exaggerated hatred to gain the attention they are missing in their real lives. Drama queens.
The drowning thing wasn't at the beginning, either. It was the following spring when they decided to split the realm into two different servers.
It was the worst bug in all mmo's IMHO, ever and it lasted almost a year.

Captain placeholder to the rescue!!!
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