Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Cloak Fix Proposal
10-12-2010, 09:52 AM
Problem: Balancing Cloak. Battle Cloak and Mask Energy Signature

Proposed Solution: Require a power drain.

Canon: as per Spock in TOS and confirmed numerous times elsewhere in Canon works, the problem of bending light (AKA cloaking) was the enormous power it required.

Discussion:

In PvP cloaking (Nebula or not) creates an incentive to remain out of the fight until your key abilities recharge. Things like RSP, Evasive Maneuvers and Batteries make Battle Cloak infinitely more effective. With the nerf to RSP this will only further BoP wait-fests that make for boring and lopsided PvP. Just to be clear, my Klink toon is in a BoP, and it's my favorite ship ... but without a cloaking solution, I fear for the vibrancy of the Klink faction--and for future Romulan PvP.

Regular Cloak and Mask Energy Signature are less problematic, but still unbalanced. There really is no counter for most players. You can't always pick your teammates, running 125 Aux truly gimps most playstyles, and forcing a ship (Nebula) or BOff choice (Mask Energy Signature to fight fire with fire) are klunky solutions.

I propose making a slow energy drain while cloaked. In 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25. Sure, you could have efficiencies to bring that back up and/or use the Emergency Powers skills to counteract it upon decloaking, and an EPS console or two to quicker recover the drained energy, but all of these things require using resources. Perhaps the numbers would need to be tweaked, but the goal would be to make cloaking most useful in extreme emergencies or in short intervals. Nobody likes waiting in an arena for a team of BoPs to fully recharge every BOff power before 5 seconds of alpha-strike combat followed by a made escape dash until Battle Cloak recharges and complete immunity allows forever to recharge and heal.

As difficult as it is to get consisten PvP games in STO, we don't need bore-fests where players leave the match mid-game from sheer boredom. And if you have seen the KvK queues lately, the who-will-uncloak-first waitfest is even more boring than FvK games.

The Nebula isn't and shouldn't be the only decent cloak detection. Random sensor scanning is Wasteful, boring, and captain-specific. Adding an canon-correct energy requirement would make the forever-cloaking borefests obsolete.

What are your thoughts on adding an energy drain requirement?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-12-2010, 10:20 AM
ahem... only if this dont result in even less player on the Klingon side. otherwise, it is a good idea.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-12-2010, 11:46 AM
I disagree. It's nothing but a nerf to the ships that can cloak, ships that already pay a pretty hefty price for the ability as it is. With what is in the game already and what is in the works we don't really need to change abilities as much as we need to change the players. Yes, running high aux to force out a cloaked ship is going to gimp certain play styles, just like running high weapons, shields or engines. It's a trade off.

Players need to work to flush out their opponents, not count on developers to change key mechanics to make their play time easier at someone else's expense. Cloaking is fine. Detection is fine. Work together and cloak doesn't really matter.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-12-2010, 12:35 PM
I think that aux should use the same mechanic as weapons, a per use drain and recharge. But beyond that I think battle cloak, MES, and regular cloak are fine since each require aux and can be detected by high aux.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-12-2010, 01:04 PM
This is an absurdly bad idea. Cloak would become utterly useless. As much as cloak detection needs improvement, its not by nerfing cloak into a power that is used for giggles.

Let me put this into perspective. A smart Fed team is going to full impulse around the map, wasting the KDF's time, forcing them to be in cloak and at full impulse so much that they won't ever have any power to actually decloak and attack. The real world result is that KDF would always, 100% of the time, be forced to run at 25 power if they want to cloak because the Feds are not going to let them line up an attack before the drain sucks out all the power.

When the KDF finally decloaks, they either won't be anywhere near the Feds, or they will be at an utterly useless 25 power thanks to your suggestion. No the Feds won't have the same, low power, because they can afford to sit and wait for the recharge after 30s (or any other arbitrary time period chosen), while the KDF is drained by cloak, unable to do anything to change that, except by giving up cloak entirely.

Power moves at a base rate of 5/s. That means if you are at 25 power it will take you 20 seconds to completely fill yourself back up to 125, where a BOP and raptor probably have their weapons power sitting. So the KDF would have zero alpha capability for at least 9-10s after decloaking if they even have an EPS console.

Worse, any energy drains by the Feds as the KDF decloaks would totally shut down the KDF, as they bottom out already low power. Tyken's rift on a decloaking ship would make it completely helpless in short order.

Forcing the KDF to use batteries or emergency power would only make things worse, because the KDF is already spending buffs just to get their power online, leaving them unable to do other buffs later, while the Feds can hold theirs in reserve or counter those buffs with SNB or whatever they please. That raptor used EPTW? Target shields, they can't reinforce them now with EPTS, and then the shields drop because of the low power.

It would make things even worse, number one by removing cloak from the game, number two by ensuring anyone who still used cloak to get away won't actually decloak before 30s are up, but will in fact full impulse away from the fight, decloak, repair as needed, wait for their abilities, then come back to the fight much later when their abilities are ready to go again.

This will never work, nor is it remotely fair to cloaking ships, in any way, shape, or form.
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 6
10-12-2010, 01:12 PM
As SteveHale Already said... we don't need a cloak gimp and a nerf to drive what little is left of the klingon faction into other mmos.

We need a player base tactic change. There are so many ways to combat cloak right now in game not counting the Naboobula that the arguments are getting old. Perhaps you should switch to aux... perhaps you should use some mines. There are plenty of good tactics to find cloaks, you don't need a further gimp.

If your nerf battle cloak option was to reduce power a bit as MES already does... fine ok I want my HULL and Shield upped heavy in compensation. lol

Also really even if the cloak reduces power to 5... how does this stop people from cloaking up to wait for there cool downs again??? I guess now they cloaking waiting for the Emergency power to Wepons to Cycle too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-12-2010, 04:43 PM
I agree with Stevehale and Husanak, this is nothing more than elabrate "Cloak" nerf and will solve nothing but put the KDF on the slow boat to faction death, while the feds come out on top again.

Quote:
I propose making a slow energy drain while cloaked. In 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25. Sure, you could have efficiencies to bring that back up and/or use the Emergency Powers skills to counteract it upon decloaking, and an EPS console or two to quicker recover the drained energy, but all of these things require using resources.
This will make the BoP completely ineffective in pvp and ruins the purpose of the vessel. Having to wait for all systems to recharge to standard parameters after cloaking will mean the death of the BoP and all who fly it might as well just roll over and let the feds kick us in the balls. Batteries won't help as you can only use one, EPT any system will not help as now you would have to have such a power and could only use one at a time. What you propose is nothing more than a nerf to the entire BoP and its combat abilities.

Quote:
Perhaps the numbers would need to be tweaked, but the goal would be to make cloaking most useful in extreme emergencies or in short intervals.
Funny, I don't remember the Klingons using cloaks as an emergency only ability anywhere in the series. The cloak has a use and your ideas will destroy that use , making the federation once again change the rules to suit themselves with no regards to others enjoyment of the game.
Batlle cloaks work in STO just like they have been portrayed in the movies and a TV shows, they area staple of the Klingon identity, and no one should be surprised that the KDF uses them much better ingame than the limitations of film required to move a storyline along for the amusement of the viewing public. This is not a movie or TV show and the federations are not the "hero" who never fails anymore. Get used to the fact that your opponents fight back with everything at their disposal and take no prisoners. Stop trying to change the game to suit your own egoes.

Quote:
What are your thoughts on adding an energy drain requirement?
I think it is an idea lacking in honest intelligent thought and is a thinly vieled attempt to nerf another faction just to improve your own gameplay, lack of skills and/or you "view" that the feds should always win in pvp because your the big damn heroes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-13-2010, 05:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by VexusPrime
Problem: Balancing Cloak. Battle Cloak and Mask Energy Signature

Proposed Solution: Require a power drain.

Canon: as per Spock in TOS and confirmed numerous times elsewhere in Canon works, the problem of bending light (AKA cloaking) was the enormous power it required.

Discussion:

In PvP cloaking (Nebula or not) creates an incentive to remain out of the fight until your key abilities recharge. Things like RSP, Evasive Maneuvers and Batteries make Battle Cloak infinitely more effective. With the nerf to RSP this will only further BoP wait-fests that make for boring and lopsided PvP. Just to be clear, my Klink toon is in a BoP, and it's my favorite ship ... but without a cloaking solution, I fear for the vibrancy of the Klink faction--and for future Romulan PvP.

Regular Cloak and Mask Energy Signature are less problematic, but still unbalanced. There really is no counter for most players. You can't always pick your teammates, running 125 Aux truly gimps most playstyles, and forcing a ship (Nebula) or BOff choice (Mask Energy Signature to fight fire with fire) are klunky solutions.

I propose making a slow energy drain while cloaked. In 30 seconds of cloaking it would drain every system down to 25. Sure, you could have efficiencies to bring that back up and/or use the Emergency Powers skills to counteract it upon decloaking, and an EPS console or two to quicker recover the drained energy, but all of these things require using resources. Perhaps the numbers would need to be tweaked, but the goal would be to make cloaking most useful in extreme emergencies or in short intervals. Nobody likes waiting in an arena for a team of BoPs to fully recharge every BOff power before 5 seconds of alpha-strike combat followed by a made escape dash until Battle Cloak recharges and complete immunity allows forever to recharge and heal.

As difficult as it is to get consisten PvP games in STO, we don't need bore-fests where players leave the match mid-game from sheer boredom. And if you have seen the KvK queues lately, the who-will-uncloak-first waitfest is even more boring than FvK games.

The Nebula isn't and shouldn't be the only decent cloak detection. Random sensor scanning is Wasteful, boring, and captain-specific. Adding an canon-correct energy requirement would make the forever-cloaking borefests obsolete.

What are your thoughts on adding an energy drain requirement?
The cloaking device does indeed require a great deal of power, however since the shields do not function while the cloak is operational, the power from the shields is routed to the cloaking device (why do you think they drop the moment cloak is activated..).

Nerfing Klingons (and cloaking feds) further is not necessary, so no thanks.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-13-2010, 07:58 PM
Maybe it would just be better to take cloak away all together? The majority of players think that Klinks are overpowered so why not just remove them too? Worried about people cloak griefing? Who is to say they won't just fly across the map and decloak to get around it. My point is, there are always going to be some portion of players who want to do something to **** off the other side.

Gimping cloak is not the answer.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-14-2010, 12:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
Gimping cloak is not the answer.
Unfortunately I fear that we cannot convince some players.....
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