Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 hey devs, torpedo powers
10-18-2010, 04:16 AM
so i think torpedo high yield and spread are in need of a revamp, as is the global cooldown, what i would like to see is :

torp global reduced to 25% of a launchers reuse, so you can effectively chain 3 of 1 type of launcher, this need not apply to special torpedos like tricobalts of breen cluster bomb

high yield and spread changed to behave like cannon rapid fire and beam fire at will. make them 10 or 15 second duration buffs, that while active cause all torpedo shots to fire additional torpedoes, what this would add to the game would be the torpedo bombers of the star trek universe that we simply do not currently have, it wouldnt be game breakingly powerfull, just a good addition to the fleet.

discuss
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# 2
10-18-2010, 04:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhansWrath
it wouldnt be game breakingly powerful.
Yes it would.
Lt. Commander
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# 3
10-18-2010, 04:53 AM
fire at will and cannon rapid fire are both currently tuned to be good powers, they could easily make the torpedoes similar so that they fire properly like when picard ordered worf to shoot thigns with the ship in every single episode of TNG
Lt. Commander
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# 4
10-18-2010, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhansWrath
fire at will and cannon rapid fire are both currently tuned to be good powers, they could easily make the torpedoes similar so that they fire properly like when picard ordered worf to shoot thigns with the ship in every single episode of TNG
Your suggestion of a launcher firing additional shots using a torpedo power is exactly what is in the game now. Torpedo high yield works as follows:

HY1 = 2 torps
HY2 = 3 torps
HY3 = 4 torps

Let's say you go for the bare minimum of 2 torps for HY1 and you have three quantum launchers fitted, each being able to fire within two seconds of each other (25% of an 8 second cooldown) while torpedo HY1 is active for 15 seconds.

You're looking at: 14 torpedoes in 15 seconds. On shields, each torp does roughly 500 damage. That's 7000 damage on a full shield face, which is roughly half the shield strength an admiral level science ship will have with a Mk X Covariant capacity*3 shield with a field generator (+35% shield capacity) fitted. An escort will have far less shield than that (roughly 9000) so its shields would be all but gone. This is not so bad since you'd have to wait for a long cooldown to use high yield again, but you'd still be able to rapid-fire single torpedoes every 2 seconds in the meantime.

Say you're shooting at bare hull and each HY torp does about 5000 damage. That's 70,000 damage on hull! A cruiser might be able to survive that with hull buffs from an engineer captain, but tactical and science ships are screwed.

All any ship has to do is fit 3 quantums and beams or cannons in the other weapon slots, pound on a target's shield with energy weapon spam, then hit tractor beam on the target and fire 14 torpedoes over 15 seconds. A cruiser could fit a dual beam bank and 3 torpedoes, with torp HY1 and beam overload 2. Beam overload nukes most of the shields and 14 torpedoes will finish off the rest. If he was shooting at an escort, it would be turned into a rapidly expanding vapor after the 5th or 6th torpedo.

I shudder to imagine HY 2 with 3 torps per shot over 15 seconds. That's 21 torpedoes. 10,500 damage on shields. 100,500 on hull.
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# 5
10-18-2010, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KhansWrath
make the torpedoes similar so that they fire properly like when picard ordered worf to shoot thigns with the ship in every single episode of TNG
By the way, I have a copy of every TNG episode and I've seen the times they use torpedoes. They usually fire them in a spread of 10 and that rarely if ever did anything devastating. In "Yesterday's Enterprise", the Ent D fires a torpedo spread at three birds of prey and about three torpedoes hit, doing no real damage. This looks exactly like the torpedo spread power that lets you fire 6-10 torpedoes that detonate around a target.
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# 6
10-18-2010, 05:31 AM
Quote:
You're looking at: 14 torpedoes in 15 seconds. On shields, each torp does roughly 500 damage. That's 7000 damage on a full shield face, which is roughly half the shield strength an admiral level science ship will have with a Mk X Covariant capacity*3 shield with a field generator (+35% shield capacity) fitted. An escort will have far less shield than that (roughly 9000) so its shields would be all but gone. This is not so bad since you'd have to wait for a long cooldown to use high yield again, but you'd still be able to rapid-fire single torpedoes every 2 seconds in the meantime.

Say you're shooting at bare hull and each HY torp does about 5000 damage. That's 70,000 damage on hull! A cruiser might be able to survive that with hull buffs from an engineer captain, but tactical and science ships are screwed.
Your reasoning is... terribly, terribly flawed.

The dual cannons on my VA escort do 1000 DPS each at 100 weapons power, unbuffed and without rapid fire. I have three of those. I can add another 1000 DPS from my rear turrets.

4000 DPS x 15 seconds = 60,000 damage! And that's not even mitigated by shields like torpedoes are! Better remove them from the game before I activate rapid fire and 'evaporate' everything!

Except that's not how the game works. To suggest that 'all' one has to do is hold a target still for 15 seconds and unload unhindered is laughable. 15 seconds is an eternity in combat.

The guy''s idea may or may not have merit, I personally think torpedoes need some kind of improvement to make them a more viable option, but your reasons for dismissing his idea were absolute nonsense.
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# 7
10-18-2010, 05:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeanneArac
Your reasoning is... terribly, terribly flawed.

The dual cannons on my VA escort do 1000 DPS each at 100 weapons power, unbuffed and without rapid fire. I have three of those. I can add another 1000 DPS from my rear turrets.

4000 DPS x 15 seconds = 60,000 damage! And that's not even mitigated by shields like torpedoes are! Better remove them from the game before I activate rapid fire and 'evaporate' everything!

Except that's not how the game works. To suggest that 'all' one has to do is hold a target still for 15 seconds and unload unhindered is laughable. 15 seconds is an eternity in combat.
You forgot to mention that up until very recently, escorts with cannons could indeed unload and "evapourate everything" on a regular basis. I'm simply saying that torpedoes with the buff that the op suggests would be as devastating as cannons used to be.

I can keep a target in my forward arc easily for at least 10 seconds and I fly a cruiser. Evasive + flying in reverse works wonders when the target breaks a tractor beam. Debuffs to prevent me from firing like jam sensors are easily removed. If you like, you could explain "how the game works" where you are unable to do this.

The op did say the HY and spread powers should cause launchers to fire additional shots for 15 seconds but did not specify how many. Say HY3 fired 4 shots per launcher over 15 seconds with a global cooldown of 2 seconds like he suggests. You'd only need 2 launchers, and In 4 seconds you could fire 8 torpedoes. Please tell me that you're not going to claim you can't keep a target's bare hull in your forward arc for 4 seconds. That's 40k damage right there, not counting criticals (which happen often enough to be an important factor). Assuming of course you took down the shields first with cannon rapid fire or beam overload.
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# 8
10-18-2010, 06:07 AM
Torps do need a boost. Not much of one but it is needed. I think they do need to introduce a rapid salvo of some kind (high yield just isn't it).

Even a HY3 fully buffed will not remove a shield facing. More likely it's the cannons, or dual beams that did it long before.

I think it more lays with the torps themselves though than the powers. Photons are worthless. Utterly worthless. (I have several ships which can fire them often, and frankly even in a 2x high yield build they suck) They just don't do enough damage to be worth anything.

Either the torp damage needs to be raised, or the ratio they hit and damage shields with needs to be changed. You can see this poor relationship the most with Transphasic and Photon as they deal so little damage. (Transphasic torps will deal as much damage to a hull through shields as a quantum will,
Honestly they do great against a hull, but not so great vs shields and I think this is where most of the problem is. A beam overload is a far more attractive choice for most gamers than a high yield 3 is. (Which is by far the least efficient torp skill..... Torp spread is so poor I just deny it's existence) Because it's a gauranteed Shield Be Gone, as well as Hull Melter. The problem is with torps is your opponent can probably at least manage to get a magical Sliver of a shield up to mitigate pretty much all the damage from a torpshot.

Where is if that had been say a BO3? you just probably melted his hull anyway.
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# 9
10-18-2010, 11:22 AM
Im ok with a reduction of the global cool down for normal torp firing, but I also believe the individual cool down needs to be inceased dramatically. In addition, the HYT torpedo global cool down needs to remain, I wont say it needs to be increased, but I'd be ok with that as an additional counter balance.

I also feel that each hull should have the appropriate hull mounted torp tube for fore and aft (when applicable), with only additional torp tubes using weapon slots. So the starter ships may only have a hull mounted tube fore, Cruisers and higher tier hulls will have both have a fore and aft tube by default. The Vo-Quv Carrier could likly only have an aft mounted tube.

This allows for basic torp compliments to not take away from energy weapon sustained DPS potential, but those desiring more than the basic compliment/lay-out of torps would be directly sacrifing the benefits of energy weapons for the benefits of the torpedo-boat.

The inclusion of torpedos should be as a default and basic as the gun is on the jet fighter. Its standardized presence should never come at the expense of setting up a specialized set-up with the beams. There is no reason and no justification in canon for the presence of a standard torp layout from taking away from the potential of energy weapons as we see in STO. Only additional tubes should take away from the ability to mount energy weapons.
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# 10
10-18-2010, 11:37 AM
I think it would be better to just ask for torpedo rapid fire as an ability, instead of changing existing abilities. It adds variety to the game, and would be easier to balance w/o redoing the torpedoes entirely.
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