Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
WARNING TL;DR BELOW!



One thing I've noticed, and not just lately, but over the time in the game since beta, is the increase in science officers. At least for space combat.

One of the main reasons is the Captian power Subnucleonic Beam, or SNB for short.

The current version of SNB removes all buffs from the target, and places a timer on all used abilities, unless a science team is used. How ever, the science team (regardless of version) will clear the SNB timer, it will not protect from an application of SNB on you, in that it won't protect from your buffs being stripped. Nothing currently does.

So that made me think long and hard, ever since this SNB was introduced, how could SNB be changed to give it a way to counter it, but not remove what it's job is already. And that's the suggestion I'm posting here this late morning hour (for me anyway).

And the suggestion is this: Change SNB so that instead of clearing all buffs, it suppresses them for 15 seconds modifiable by Aux (Max of say 30-45 seconds, or what ever the max is for the timer on abilities).

If SNB were modified in this route, it would allow people to use Science team to not only clear SNB, but get their or their team mates Buffs back up as well. How ever that also brings up a secondary problem.. Team abilities clear anything regardless of the version..

Team abilities also should work as follows:

Team Ability version 1 vs Version 1 enemy abilities should be an auto clear. Engineering Team 1 vs Target subsystem 1, etc.. etc..

Team Ability version 1 vs Version 2 enemy abilities should only be a 50% chance to clear. Example Engineering team 1 vs Target subsystem 2, etc..

Team Ability version 1 vs Version 3 enemy abilities should only be a 25% chance to clear. Example Engineering team 1 vs Target Subsystem 3, etc..

Team Ability version 2 vs Version 1 or 2 enemy abilities would clear any ability at or below it's rank but vs. enemy abilities Version 3 it would only have a 50% chance to clear. Engineering team 2 vs Target Subsystem 1 or 2 for example vs Target Subsystem 3 for example.

Team Ability version 3 vs any version enemy ability would always clear the effect. Engineering team 3 vs Target subsystem (any) for example.

This way, if SNB were changed as above, you couldn't just use a Science team 1 to completely clear an SNB 3 from a VA/LG Captian. And it would also bring about a plausable reason to actually use skills like Tactical Team 3 or Science team 3. And perhaps the duration of the times for the Science team, Tactical Team, and Engineering team buffs (Skill and so forth) should be increased to 10 seconds instead of 5 seconds we have now. It would also grant slight protections from enemy abilities as well.

This affects both PVP And PVE and probobly deserves a place in the suggestion general area, maybe even on tribble, but I felt I hear more about SNB in PVP areas, so I thought I'd place the post here. Even though now the Breen and the Cardassians have SNB in PVE areas.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
11-30-2010, 01:54 AM
subnuke makes me cry. the only balance answer is everytime a sci uses subnuke they autoself destruct. problem solved *walks away*


i liked it better when it just shut your bos off. interupt powers is dumb
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
11-30-2010, 02:11 AM
snb is already on a severe timer of 3 minutes, and sci team fixes the cooldowns, if you wanna keep your buffs dont pop them all when you know the sci captain has snb up and is waiting for you to do it.

gotta be smarter then your enemy to beat him, thats why i always win.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
11-30-2010, 02:29 AM
Im a science captain and even if they did that to Sub nuc it wouldn't help you.
I use sub nuc, Viral matrix and jam sensors while I target your shields and use sensors scan. now your screwed royally. Asking for more Nerfs on science is going to drive players away. Science has had so many Nerf's its not even funny. its bad enough we have the least DPS. We have to be very creative to et high DPS.
No more Nerfs to science PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! learn how to be smarter about your play style. it's not fair to nerf a officer type because you don't know how to use your counters.
Since you are unclear here is something just for you. this may help you.

==SCIENCE==
Charged Particle Burst - System: Sensor Array. Charged Particle Burst temporarily disables the cloaking devices of nearby hostile ships and damages their shields.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: be farther than 5km away when used

Energy Siphon - System: Deflector Dish. Energy Syphon draws power from the target. This reduces the target's power settings to all systems and increases your power settings.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: General aux-subsytem counters.

Feedback Pulse - System: Deflector Field. Feedback Pulse harnesses the energy of beam weapon attacks directed against you. Each time you are hit, a damaging pulse is directed at the attacking ship.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: avoid using energy weapons on the target while the effect is in effect.

Gravity Well - System: Deflector Dish. Gravity Well creates a spatial anomaly at the target's location that draws enemies to its center and gradually crushes their ships, inflicting kinetic damage. Shields drastically reduce the effects of kinetic damage.
~hard counter: leave the area of effect
~soft counter: n/a

Hazard Emitters - System: Hazard. Hazard Emitters periodically cleanse the ship of any fire or radiation hazards, as well as restoring some hull strength over time.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Jam Sensors - System: Sensor Array. Jam Targeting[*sic] Sensors prevents the enemy from targetting you
~hard counter: science team
~soft counter: n/a

Mask Energy Signature - System: Sensor Array. Mask Energy Signiture shields the energy output of your ship, making it more dificult for enemies to detect you.
~hard counter: breaks at 19km distance
~soft counter: not sucking (seriously)

Photonic Officer - System: Emitter. Photonic Officer reduces the recharge time of bridge officer powers.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Polarize Hull - System: Hazard. Polarize Hull provides damage resistance against energy weapons, breaks any current tractor beams and temporarily protects against any additional tractor beams.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Photonic Shockwave - System: Emitter. Photonic Shockwave releases a massive blast around your ship, knocking back enemy ships and inflicting kinetic damage. Shields drastically reduce the effects of kinetic damage.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: don't be within the area of effect

Scramble Sensors - System: Sensor Probes. Scramble Sensors fires a probe at the target that bursts into a particle field, confusing the affected enemies into targetting eachother.
~hard counter: Science team
~soft counter: manually select targets while this power is in effect.
note - Scramble Sensors 1 is currently mislabeled as Jam Targetting Sensors

Science Team - System: Crew. Science Team repairs shield damage and grants a science buff for your own ship or an ally. Also removes science Debuffs.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Tachyon Beam - System: Deflector Dish. Tachyon Beam drains the target's shields. Increases in effectiveness based on current auxiliary power level.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Tractor Beam - System: Tractor. Tractor Beam slows the target ship, thereby making it an easier target for weapons. Targets held in a tractor beam cannot cloak. Increases in effectiveness based on current auxiliary power level.
~hard counter: polarize hull, jam sensors, attack pattern omega
~soft counter: brute force your way out with evasive manuevers and full power to engines

Tractor Beam Repulsors - System: tractor. Tractor Beam Repulsors pushes up to three enemies (dead or alive) away from your starship.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Transfer Shield Strength - System: Deflector Dish. Transfer Shield Strength uses power reserves to bolster an ally's shields, increasing their current strength and making them more resiliant to damage for a short duration. Increases in effectiveness based on current auxiliary power level.
~hard counter: n/a
~soft counter: n/a

Tyken's Rift - System: Deflector Dish. Tyken's Rift creates a spatial anomaly at the target's location that drains power from all hostile ships and causes minor damage.
~hard counter: leave the area of effect.
~soft counter: power transfer rate boosts, such as EPS flow regulators or EPS Transfer

Viral Matrix - System: Sensor Probes. Viral Matrix launches a probe that flies to the target and shuts down its systems, effectively holding it in place. The target is highly resistant to holds for a short duration after this effect expires.
~hard counter: Engineering Team will restore power to all subsystems
~soft counter: Emergency Power to X will restore power to the appropriate subsystem
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
11-30-2010, 02:44 AM
Change SNB to a thirty second cooldown and you've got a deal. A three-minute cooldown for a counterable ability that only minorly inconviences a single opponent for 15 seconds is ridiculous.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
11-30-2010, 03:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptic_Fan_101 View Post
Change SNB to a thirty second cooldown and you've got a deal. A three-minute cooldown for a counterable ability that only minorly inconviences a single opponent for 15 seconds is ridiculous.
I could live with that..

SNB as it is, is not needed anymore.. Before the RSP change, it was a necessity, now it is not.

I can also live with buffstripping, but there should be some sort of of balancing factor: low aux = Newest buff stripped, medium aux = 2 newest buffs stripped, capped aux = 3 newest buffs stripped.. And if it keeps the buffstripping, the interuption needs to go..

As it is, its kinda weaksauce that 1 skill can counter *everything* you have active (at once) and you kinda *have* to use a skill after (assuming it isnt on CD ), in order to recover again.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
11-30-2010, 03:19 AM
SNB SHOULD strip every buff you have up at the time... and do NOTHING at all to your cool downs. This decouples it from aux... which is good. No more aux bats and SNB to make sure you kill someone. Make us sci captains use it with a little thought. You use it when you see the buff bar... or you KNOW your target just used there best shield heal. Right now most people use it completely randomly or when they see a long line of buffs, This would also force people to roll there skills more instead of hitting EVERY single buff they have all at once.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
11-30-2010, 03:37 AM
Going by the final version of the RSP nerf - what ever cool ideas we come up with, the easiest will probably make the cut.

So I like Husanak's idea better. They can then reduce the cooldown a bit (from 3 to 2 minutes).
Aux also doesn't have to affect everything a Science Captain does, and the cooldown affect seems an unneccessary complication anyway.

Science Team could ideally provide a preventive counter to SNB (though with the 5 second duration it's certainly useless as that.)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
11-30-2010, 03:54 AM
hell lets just remove that OP skill and any other captain skill from the game, well maybe not engi ones, then there will be nothing left to challenge the mighty cruiser, which is as it should be.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
11-30-2010, 01:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilawpilath View Post
One thing I've noticed, and not just lately, but over the time in the game since beta, is the increase in science officers.
Get rid of resist stacking and you will see a decrease in science officers, IMO. SNB is the only thing that can deal with it directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by h3llr4iser View Post
It's a 3 Mins cooldown, and I have hardly seen it used with any sense of purpose. You still see it being fired as soon as somebody fires an RSP, even if it's an escort that can only have it up for like 6 seconds.

It's useful against those pesky escorts with a line of buffs as long as the trans-siberian express; It's useful when you find the ultra-resists equipped cruiser.

Honestly, I would see a modification to the SNB when Escorts will be made so they can't drop anything in range in 3 seconds flat and Curisers won't be able to tank 4 opponent's focused fire anymore.

One thing that could be done, however, is to have SNB changed into a Sci ship skill instead of a captain's one...I see how a full DHC equipped Escort with Attack Patterns and CRF could become even more annoying if it also fires a SNB.
No offense, but the better teams coordinate SNB and I don't know how to pop some players without it.

This is comedy, right?
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