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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
One thing that occurs to me about Infected is that Gozer has commented that STFs are not for PuGs. And I respect that. I enjoyed Heroics especially and some raiding in WoW. I loved STFs in City of Heroes (which were PuG content, really).

But most organized groups in games I played before formed one of a few ways:

1) Existing social group, generally mostly uber-casuals. This has been the majority of my experience in MMOs. It's why I played with comic book writers and artists and genre people in City of Heroes. It's why I joined my roommates' guild in WoW. This can be fun. This also makes it like pulling teeth to do many things as a group aside from leveling because the skill levels and interests are so varied.

Let me warn you off the bat: This means a rogue in cloth deciding he's a tank may be someone you group with. It also means Gail Simone will friggin' wipe your group non-stop because she thinks it's funny and if you aren't up for that, you're probably in the wrong group.

2) Mentorship. The standard model for a lot of people. This just plain doesn't work for me. It means scheduling. It also means if you decide to keep an erratic schedule, you'll want to do things when nobody else is on. It also means a lot of babysitting for very new players. It usually leads to lots of rules and regimentation and quotas for certain activities.

My favorite approach is option #3:

#3) Loosely organized groups. You discover someone doing what you're doing and you start doing that activity with them, semi-frequently. This generally requires a few things but mostly a puggable introductory content where you can meet strangers... and it can help to have open world or open instances where undirected activities happen.

You can do #1 or #2 in STO but I have no idea how #3 works. You're not going to happen to notice someone in combat or participating in an activity you aren't a part of. Moreover, there is no introductory puggable STF.

That is an issue, IMHO.

There needs to be, essentially, some form of STF tutorial, whether a nerfed Infected or new STF prior to Infected, that actually gets strangers doing these kinds of things together and acts as a group building hub.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
12-18-2010, 01:47 PM
IMO Fleets are there for people to play together regularly and improve their skills as a unit rather then as individuals. I don't think it's the STFs job to teach people to form Fleets and become better team players. Any other mission in the game can be used for PUGging; with the hope that PUGging eventualy leads to continued playing with the same people.

I do think they should tell you at the beginning of each STF mission that they're not designed for PUGs but rather for "dedicated teams" to do. Maybe that way people would have different expectations of what the STF is.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
12-18-2010, 01:55 PM
The only problem with the fleet missions is they are now going to be offering EXCLUSIVE CONTENT only acheivable if you have a social gaming group.

This is BAD as some of us can not get this gear. I PUG'd Infected the other day for 6 hours and we ended up with only 3 people. Could you possibly put more Borg in that? maybe a Cube or 2 in the space station to make sure no one has a chance?

If cryptic suppors exclusive STF gear then they need to reissue an exclusive upgraded to tier 6 Uber Galaxy to those of us who earned them through the referral program as the excuse for nerfing that was "no one should have access to exclusive content someone else can't earn" or some drek like that.

Make the STF's scalable to the number of players in the mission at the time. If someone bolts, cut the mobs back to compensate. Currently they are way too hard anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
12-18-2010, 02:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
The only problem with the fleet missions is they are now going to be offering EXCLUSIVE CONTENT only acheivable if you have a social gaming group.

This is BAD as some of us can not get this gear. I PUG'd Infected the other day for 6 hours and we ended up with only 3 people. Could you possibly put more Borg in that? maybe a Cube or 2 in the space station to make sure no one has a chance?

If cryptic suppors exclusive STF gear then they need to reissue an exclusive upgraded to tier 6 Uber Galaxy to those of us who earned them through the referral program as the excuse for nerfing that was "no one should have access to exclusive content someone else can't earn" or some drek like that.

Make the STF's scalable to the number of players in the mission at the time. If someone bolts, cut the mobs back to compensate. Currently they are way too hard anyway.
There is NOTHING at all exclusive about STF's other than the rewards they bring.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
12-18-2010, 02:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexraptor View Post
There is NOTHING at all exclusive about STF's other than the rewards they bring.
THAT is precisely what I'm talking about.

Give me a chance to get that loot another way that isn't prejudicial of my lifestyle and I would have no complaint.

If we referral people can't have unbeatable exclusive ships, then people fortunate enough to have social groups should not have loot the rest of us can't.

Put the Borg stuff out there to craft as well and i'll be happy.

Otherwise I'll have tp PUG and cryptic will be hypocrites for nerfing the Galaxy X's and not making STF loot available to everyone.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
12-18-2010, 02:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
THAT is precisely what I'm talking about.

Give me a chance to get that loot another way that isn't prejudicial of my lifestyle and I would have no complaint.
Raids in every MMO are designed for multiple people. Loners in all of the 300+ MMOs are just going to have to learn to accept that.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
12-18-2010, 03:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
THAT is precisely what I'm talking about.

Give me a chance to get that loot another way that isn't prejudicial of my lifestyle and I would have no complaint.

If we referral people can't have unbeatable exclusive ships, then people fortunate enough to have social groups should not have loot the rest of us can't.

Put the Borg stuff out there to craft as well and i'll be happy.

Otherwise I'll have tp PUG and cryptic will be hypocrites for nerfing the Galaxy X's and not making STF loot available to everyone.
No. I like the fact that there is unique loot only to be had through certain ways. Whether it be through STF's, crafting, PVP, PVE, or diplomacy. It adds depth to the loot system, and encourages people to try out parts of the game that may not have otherwise thought to try. I, personally, have not done any diplomacy missions (other than the ones that happen to give DXP in B'tran) mainly because it is boring and a waste of my time IMO. But if they ever came up with an item set for diplomatic achievement, I would consider doing them. I wouldn't complain how Cryptic is making me play in a way that is not my style.

As for getting people to team, what harm could it do to have a few missions at level 10, 20, or 30 that require teaming? It wouldn't need to be hard or challenging, but something that requires 2 or 3 people to complete. For example, having a simultaneous console activation like in Infected, except without the mob difficulty. It would allow people to team together without worrying too much about the mob factor.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
12-18-2010, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
The only problem with the fleet missions is they are now going to be offering EXCLUSIVE CONTENT only acheivable if you have a social gaming group.
.
Oh for frack's sake it's not *that* hard.

The only thing that would prevent someone from NOT completing it would be an utter lack of communication skills and the inability to 'play well with others'.

...and if that's a serious consideration, this probably isn't the best game for them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
12-18-2010, 06:17 PM
So me and 4 other guys were playing infected. We got along and were having fun. Eventually after the 1rst 100 or so mobs of borg, 2 guys left. We soldiered on for awhile, but after 6 hours it was time for me to get some sleep.

All you "experienced MMO players" need to cut us casual guys some slack or we need to pay less and you more because we aren't getting the same amount of product as you, or in case of the Borg too much product

Actually just slowing them to normal speed would give people a fighting chance and by people I mean people that don't play more than an hour or two a day.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
12-18-2010, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thlaylie View Post
So me and 4 other guys were playing infected. We got along and were having fun. Eventually after the 1rst 100 or so mobs of borg, 2 guys left. We soldiered on for awhile, but after 6 hours it was time for me to get some sleep.

All you "experienced MMO players" need to cut us casual guys some slack or we need to pay less and you more because we aren't getting the same amount of product as you, or in case of the Borg too much product
Well, you certainly don't know me if you categorize me as an "experienced" MMO player. Much like you probably didn't know about that one little interlink node around the corner...

"Casual" doesn't have to mean "dumb" and "educated" doesn't mean "elitist".
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