Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Khitomer Accord Help Request
04-13-2011, 11:54 AM
Okay, so I attempted KA for the first time last night, and my group soundly got our butts handed to us on the first part of the mission twice. We had four tac officers (two in cruisers, two in escorts) and one sci officer (in a science ship). I felt like with that group, we should've been more than capable of handling this part, so I am very confused as to how we failed.

I had the sci ship, a cruiser, and an escort take the left gate, while I and the other escort took the right gate. We never made it much past the second wave of probes and spheres, so I am asking here for some insight from those of you who have done this before. In particular:

1. Is it okay to use abilities like Eject Warp Plasma (or other AoE abilities), or will that aggro the spheres too soon?

2. Did I split up the group incorrectly? I read a guide here on the forums that 3 and 2 was the way to go, but given how many probes and spheres came through in each wave and how tough the spheres were, I'm having a hard time picturing how this is possible (even though I know it is).

3. I never used any AoE attacks myself (even turned auto-target off to prevent accidentally firing on a sphere), yet I got aggroed by spheres several times while still shooting at probes. Is it possible that they aggro if a probe's explosion damages them?

4. What should a sci ship be loaded for in this part?

5. I read that some spheres might go through the gate - if you kill all the probes in a wave and the next wave is already incoming, is it better to ignore the remaining spheres from the last wave and concentrate on the probes from the next?

Thank you in advance for any help offered.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-13-2011, 01:41 PM
K.. I can only offer one of many suggestions / methods.

Especially with the escorts around - your focus should be on keeping all those probes and spheres in one area. (Escort CSV friendly thinking)

1) YES -- use all AoE abilities -- esp link up Grav well (or EWP plasma) with the escort's CSV to get pain to all the borg at once.

2) Group split was fine. Do remember, the "heavy" group may need to send the escort to assist the "light" group. In your case - they should just head for the center gate, and pick up strays.

3)If you are the sci ship -- your focus is "crowd control" - not "kill things" Your greatest input is keeping the borg from moving (EWP, Grav Well, Tractor Beams) and making sure the Escort can use those cannons.
Any damage is just gravy.

4)Grav Well should be #1 on your list. Tractor beam (or better yet - repulsors) are a solid choice as well. Note, do not run repulsors, if someone has the group Grav Well'ed. EWP is not bad (Grav Well Better)
and of course...heals for your pet escort. Keep your pet healthy, happy and shooting.

5)If you completely ignore spheres - they can count against you, I believe. Probes will beeline no matter what for the gate, Spheres will turn and fight, if you aggro them.


some helpful tips -- have the group (or at least several) use timers. 2:45 from the time the gate closes, to reopen again.

Draw the Tac cube to the gate first, then kill it. It wipes out the spawn there, mostly. The two "light" ships for the other gate, should leave when the Tac cube is almost dead.

Get behind the gates -- dps as much as you can for 15 seconds. If there is a ship wtih Grav well -- have them snag the spawn, while the others do heavy dps. THEN go after the spawn, probes first. Sci ship can subnuke the gate for debuff.

You should be able to kill all the probes in about 20 seconds total. Let the cruiser and ship handle the two remaining spheres, escort peels off to help other side. Sci ship - either screw with the spheres, while cruiser DPSs them...or both change to weps power and hammer them. Kill and get behind the gate.

Cruiser should be all about beam power, and keeping shields up (EPtS) Some healing of the pet escort.
Sci ship - crowd control on that side, heal the Escort, and buff / debuff. Should NOT be trying to dps the gate, or act as primary kill. Single cannon and turrets on the cruiser - not a bad thought.

Other side (light side) Do not bother dps'ing your gate. That comes later. Snare the spawn and coat them with EWP. Escort -- cannon cannon cannon cannon. Rely upon the Sci ship to keep you alive, you get all power to weps.

Once the "heavy" side downs their gate - you will get some cubes. "Heavy" rushes over to help - have ONE sci ship pick a cube....and get aggro. Everyone else leave that frickin' cube untouched. Let the Sci ship drag it well away. You should have easy time beating spawn - then get behind gate. Escorts - DPS the gate. Everyone else - keep the borg handy for when the gate goes back up, and the escorts come out to kill.


Good LUCK !!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-13-2011, 02:25 PM
Your group is very similar to how we like to run it, except we usually put the 2 escorts together to go to the right gate. This is how we run it, but keep in mind this is not the only way.

3 ship group: 2 cruisers and 1 sci
2 ship group: 2 escorts with cannons (beams do not work as well)

Cruisers should run eject warp plasma 3. Sci should run Grav well 3. We usually go CRF rather than CSV for the escorts, but meh.

We usually lead the tac cube to the LEFT gate, and explode it right in front of it to damage the incoming spheres and probes. Before it explodes (like at 5% health), the 2 escorts head for the RIGHT gate.

When it explodes, start a 3 minute timer, so you know when the gates will open again.

Sci ship sits in front of LEFT gate, and hits Grav well to bunch the borg together. When they are stuck in the well, 1 cruiser flies up to them and spreads warp plasma on them. Before it wears off, the second cruiser does the same. By the time the GW, and 2 EWP wears off, most of probes should be dead, and spheres should be heavily damaged. Should just be clean up at this point. 1 cruiser may, if needed at this point, temporarily go to the RIGHT gate to help the escorts. If not needed, then 1 cruiser may set up behind the gate to DPS it when it opens again. The sci and the other cruiser, however, should remain in front of gate to repeat the GW and EWP on the next wave. For the cruiser, it's better to sit a little off to the side for better approach vector to spread the plasma.

Meanwhile, at the RIGHT gate, the 2 escorts should focus fire and kill all probes and spheres. When only 40 seconds remain until the gate opens, at least 1 escort should head for the rear of the gate and setup for gate DPS. If all the probes/spheres are cleared by then, both escorts can go setup behind the gate. If not all are cleared, 1 escort remains to clean up while the other goes to setup behind the gate. 1 cruiser from the other side MAY come assist at this point temporarily. A timer will greatly help your damage on the gate because you will know when to hit your buffs. CRF and CSV only last for about 10 seconds, so if you hit your buffs too early, you won't be damaging the gate much. And if you wait until after the gate opens, you lose time to DPS while it is open.

We usually have about 30 seconds to spare between waves with this approach.

Spheres will enter the time portal if they do not get aggroed. So not aggroeing the spheres is not an option.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-13-2011, 03:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Okay, so I attempted KA for the first time last night, and my group soundly got our butts handed to us on the first part of the mission twice. We had four tac officers (two in cruisers, two in escorts) and one sci officer (in a science ship). I felt like with that group, we should've been more than capable of handling this part, so I am very confused as to how we failed.

I had the sci ship, a cruiser, and an escort take the left gate, while I and the other escort took the right gate. We never made it much past the second wave of probes and spheres, so I am asking here for some insight from those of you who have done this before. In particular:
Quote:
1. Is it okay to use abilities like Eject Warp Plasma (or other AoE abilities), or will that aggro the spheres too soon?
A Cruiser with EWP3 and Polarize Hull and FAW is prefer for KA. It kills the probes and spheres fast.

Quote:
2. Did I split up the group incorrectly? I read a guide here on the forums that 3 and 2 was the way to go, but given how many probes and spheres came through in each wave and how tough the spheres were, I'm having a hard time picturing how this is possible (even though I know it is).
For an inexperience team 2/3 setup is prefer. An experience team would do a 1/4 and bring both gates down within 10-15 minutes.

I would suggest the 2 man team to be one with EWP3 and an Escort with Scatter Volley if possible. If not FAW3.

Quote:
3. I never used any AoE attacks myself (even turned auto-target off to prevent accidentally firing on a sphere), yet I got aggroed by spheres several times while still shooting at probes. Is it possible that they aggro if a probe's explosion damages them?
Yes.

Quote:
4. What should a sci ship be loaded for in this part?
Gravity Well 3 is a must for science and Tractor Beam Repulsors is good have too.

Quote:
5. I read that some spheres might go through the gate - if you kill all the probes in a wave and the next wave is already incoming, is it better to ignore the remaining spheres from the last wave and concentrate on the probes from the next?
Probes are ways first.

Divide into Teams. Team 1 the gate team with the science with the other two ships. Team 2 the tank team, Cruiser with EPW3 and Polarize Hull and an Escort.

Both teams take out all Borg ships except the Tactical Cube. Do Not use Photonic Fleet or Fleet Support!!! Remember once all the Borg are dead the shields around both gates will come down and more Borg will jumping. Once the last Borg is the shields are on a 2m:30s timer. Every 2m:30s the shields come down.

Now you must lead the Cube to the gate close to it. That gate will be #1 and were team #1 will be. Get the Tactical Cube right on the gate and keep it there. When it blows up the secondary explosion will damage the gate and hopefully destroy any Borg jumping in. If someone is about to die it is better to die then to lead the Cube away from the gate. Tractor Beam Repulsors is good for pushing the cube towards the gate. But do not use it on the gate.

Now once the Tactical Cube is down to 70% the Cruiser on Team 2 moves away from gate without aggroing the Cube to the other gate and into a position to the side of it but in front of it so he could move at the Borg when they jump in and lad plasma in the path.

Gate #1 make sure everyone is behind the gate before the Tactical Cube explode so when the Borg jump in on the front of the gate you will not be in a fire fight but be able to attack the gate first.

Important:

Always get behind the gate before the Borg jump in. This will make life easier.

When attacking the gate for ships using Beam Arrays broadside is your best attack. You will to more damage to the gate then torpedoes. Tactical make sure you use your buffs.

When the shield goes back up the other escort on Team 2 move to Gate #2 and kill the Borg.

Kill order: Probes; Spheres; Cubes.

Now if you have Gravity Well 3 use it to pull the Borg together and focus fire on 1 Cube the explosion will destroy the other Borg.

Team 1 once all the Borg on your gate are destroy get back behind you gate and wait for the shield to come down. Attack gate first. Rise and repeat till the gate is destroy.

Team 2 your job is tank your gate. Only worry about the Borg jumping in. Do not worry about attacking the gate.

Once the first gate is destroy Team 1 join Team 2. Once all the Borg a destroy everyone get behind the gate. Rise and repeat till the gate is destroy.

Gravity Well and EWP is a deadly combo. First GW the Borg and then dump plasma on them.

Remember every 2m:30s the shields come down.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-13-2011, 03:27 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. We never had any trouble leading the tac cube over to the left gate and "detonating" it there, but the gate runs just killed us. From what you've said so far, it definitely sounds like GW was what we were missing last time around. If I manage to get another group together, I'll make sure somebody has it. Would it be worth it to have two sci ships with GW so that each gate spawn is covered that way, or would that detract too much from dps?



Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight
A Cruiser with EWP3 and Polarize Hull and FAW is prefer for KA. It kills the probes and spheres fast.
This I'm kind of surprised by. I fly a star cruiser and had my tac officer take FAW I (she also uses HYT II) a few weeks ago just to try it out, and I found that even combined with EPtW I and DEM II its damage was pretty much non-existent against mobs in standard solo missions. So, I dumped it again in favor of BO I. Did I miss something (cause you're not the first person to say that FAW is awesome, so I figure I did something wrong somewhere)?

I agree fully with the Polarize Hull, though; I always run with that and it's been a lifesaver against Borg many times.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-13-2011, 04:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Thanks for all the suggestions, guys. We never had any trouble leading the tac cube over to the left gate and "detonating" it there, but the gate runs just killed us. From what you've said so far, it definitely sounds like GW was what we were missing last time around. If I manage to get another group together, I'll make sure somebody has it. Would it be worth it to have two sci ships with GW so that each gate spawn is covered that way, or would that detract too much from dps?
Sure if you wish but you do need DPS to take down everything in a timely fashion.

For KA I prefer 4 Tac and 1 Eng for the fastest runs.We took down both gates in under 15 minutes. An Engineer with Bunker Kit will make KA easier. I have done KA with many combinations but never without at else one Engineer. I know it can be done without one but life is easier with one.


Quote:
This I'm kind of surprised by. I fly a star cruiser and had my tac officer take FAW I (she also uses HYT II) a few weeks ago just to try it out, and I found that even combined with EPtW I and DEM II its damage was pretty much non-existent against mobs in standard solo missions. So, I dumped it again in favor of BO I. Did I miss something (cause you're not the first person to say that FAW is awesome, so I figure I did something wrong somewhere)? I agree fully with the Polarize Hull, though; I always run with that and it's been a lifesaver against Borg many times.

On my Assault Cruiser I use FAW 1-2 and BO1 for KA. For a Cruiser torpedoes take to long to line up in KA. It's better to broadside everything. Get in front of the path the Probes are taking and fire on everything. I have 10 BOff on my ship 3 Tac, 4, Eng, 3 sci. I can run any combination I wish.

I use to fly the Star Cruiser and do think it is a better ship for tanking the gate in KA but I got tried of always being the healer.

My engineer/cruiser it's about keeping aggro on me while the escort is free to kills everything. I have more heals then a escort and can survive multiple Borg tractor beams. I can kill the probes on my own but not everything else.

I don't use DEM for KA, heals are more important for a cruiser in KA. Use FAW2 and either BO1 or FAW1.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-13-2011, 05:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
Would it be worth it to have two sci ships with GW so that each gate spawn is covered that way, or would that detract too much from dps?
1 sci is enough. With 2, you might not have enough team DPS.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TantalusOmega
This I'm kind of surprised by. I fly a star cruiser and had my tac officer take FAW I (she also uses HYT II) a few weeks ago just to try it out, and I found that even combined with EPtW I and DEM II its damage was pretty much non-existent against mobs in standard solo missions. So, I dumped it again in favor of BO I. Did I miss something (cause you're not the first person to say that FAW is awesome, so I figure I did something wrong somewhere)?.
I play all 3 officer types, and have done KA with all 3 classes. My engineer flies Excelsior, and uses BO. I found the same thing as you with FAW being meh. However, there have been recent changes made to FAW, and I think it is better now. I might try it out next time. I think this is one of the benefits of being able to have multiple bridge officers on your ship. You can swap them in/out depending on what mission you are doing.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-13-2011, 05:22 PM
FAW has been change and there is a big roar over it in the PvP community. Escorts hate it while cruisers love it. The trend right now is Tactical in a Excelsior with DEM3 and FAW3. You need points into DEM.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-14-2011, 06:39 PM
That might explain a bit of the discrepancy. I don't care for the Excelsior or any TOS era ship, so I won't fly those, which limits me to using FAW II at max. I can, however, confirm that FAW I is a little better than not using it (134 k damage with FAW, 122 k damage without FAW, all else being equal), which did surprise me a little, seeing as how it seems that without FAW, I'm firing phasers more often than with FAW.

The true test, I guess, would be to pit it against BO I and see which one comes out on top for damage output.

Anyway, thanks again, everyone, for all the suggestions and help. I think I have a much better idea of what to do when I next get an opportunity to try KA. Hopefully the next time around, I'll last longer than 10 minutes when the gates start spawning.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-15-2011, 05:52 PM
Escort with repulsors are pretty effective in a pinch, if some of the probes are getting through.. Just go between the timegate and the Borg and fire it off.. A pair of well equipped ships (we use 2 escorts) are quite enough to keep one gate locked down, and you can also do a good deal of damage to the gate itself, while the 3-man team are dropping the second..
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