Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Anti-Carrier Tactics?
04-28-2011, 09:52 AM
Hello PvPers.

I am a lvl 51 Fed Science Officer. I currently fly a MVAM Prometheus, with a focus on movement debuffs (tractor beam, target engines, chronitons). It works well on taking down BoPs, but I struggle against carriers, especially 1v1. Since everyone is flying an escort these days, I thought I'd roll a new build, and see if I can focus on an anti-carrier role.

What do you suggest?

My first thought is beam target aux/energy siphon/tyken's rift, etc... to disable pet spawns, but most carriers are likely to run at high aux so it seems like a risky strategy.

I also think that I'll need to tank to a certain degree, to match the carrier's HPS.

Ideas?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
04-28-2011, 10:24 AM
One CSV and just DPS and self healing. Though 1 v 1 is not the niche this game goes for being a sci in an escort should give you an advantage over most carrier builds. Definitely one copy of CSV and one other CRF and buff up and debuff the target with SNB, Sensor Scan.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
04-28-2011, 10:32 AM
When I'm fighting a carrier in my defiant, I try to get behind them and begin my attack using cannon scatter volley (CSV) to eliminate their pets as quickly as possible - often as soon as they are deployed. It's very satisfying to see them explode as soon as they appear

If a bunch of their pets get stuck behind me or scattered around, away from my cannons, I use beam fire at will (BFAW) to hit them, as I have a couple beam arrays deployed in my rear weapon slots. BFAW is currently controversial though, so you have to be prepared to be abused in chat if you use it.

Those two powers have been fairly effective for me. When there's two carriers though, I've noticed that all efforts to clear all the spam is futile, unless there are others with me who are devoting themselves to clearing the spam as well. Also note that having CSV & FAW loaded takes away from some of your damage potential against single targets because those slots take up space that can be used for another copy of CRF or BOv (I don't like having two of the same power anyway though, and prefer variety). You can always have multiple boffs set up for different situations and swap them in and out depending upon if you're facing a carrier or not.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
04-28-2011, 10:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zutty View Post
Hello PvPers.

I am a lvl 51 Fed Science Officer. I currently fly a MVAM Prometheus, with a focus on movement debuffs (tractor beam, target engines, chronitons). It works well on taking down BoPs, but I struggle against carriers, especially 1v1. Since everyone is flying an escort these days, I thought I'd roll a new build, and see if I can focus on an anti-carrier role.

What do you suggest?

My first thought is beam target aux/energy siphon/tyken's rift, etc... to disable pet spawns, but most carriers are likely to run at high aux so it seems like a risky strategy.

I also think that I'll need to tank to a certain degree, to match the carrier's HPS.

Ideas?
Don't engage 1 v 1. There's a reason the Red Baron didn't stick around in a fight he couldn't win. If it weren't for plot immunity, the Defiant would've been blown up dozens of times.

You're a sci. Keep on debuffing that carrier and when he uses his shield / hull heals sub nuc him then shockwave. Open up a shield facing with your weapons and HAVE A WINGMAN help finish the guy off.

EDIT: I should update my sig but i'm too lazy. The above comes from a karfi / voquv pilot.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
04-28-2011, 07:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gx4th View Post
Don't engage 1 v 1. There's a reason the Red Baron didn't stick around in a fight he couldn't win. If it weren't for plot immunity, the Defiant would've been blown up dozens of times.

You're a sci. Keep on debuffing that carrier and when he uses his shield / hull heals sub nuc him then shockwave. Open up a shield facing with your weapons and HAVE A WINGMAN help finish the guy off.

EDIT: I should update my sig but i'm too lazy. The above comes from a karfi / voquv pilot.

Sounds like a good plan, until you get into a match that has 3 or more carriers and they are all running the same thing....then there isn't even a contest, I just came from a match that had a well balanced fed team, and klings had 3 sci's in carriers plus whatever else, I think there was a tac and an engineer...it was ridiculous....there was no way to kill the spawns off fast enough, much less try and kill any of the carreirs off because we were dead before you could blink and I'm not that squishy...not to mention the camping at the spawn point...just really tasteless pvp etiquette in my opion.......i don't expect to win all the time...but I enjoy a good fight.....that wasn't a fight at all.......DEV'S NEED TO TAKE A SERIOUS LOOK AT HOW PVP IS ORGANIZED OR SIMPLY NERF CARRIERS.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
04-28-2011, 08:05 PM
It was a premade, at least 4 of the 5 were. That alone was going to make it difficult enough. However, the Carriers aren't really the problem so much as the clunky UI. Carriers, and spam in general, would be a lot easier to handle if we could get Cryptic to invest a little bit of time in a few adjustments.
  • Tab Targeting that cycles through players only, ignoring NPCs and spam (compliment current targeting options).
  • Fix Target_Enemy_Near to actually target the nearest enemy.
  • Customizable Target Indicators for greater differentiation between the target and surrounding ships, mines, etc.

It won't solve the spam problem, of which Feds are just as guilty, but it would certainly help mitigate some of the headache.

As for the spawn camping, we need to move away from it or we deserve what we get.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
04-28-2011, 08:24 PM
If too many pets I just filter them out in options, non player never x3. I love going against carriers 1v1 in a escort.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
04-28-2011, 08:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveHale View Post
It was a premade, at least 4 of the 5 were. That alone was going to make it difficult enough. However, the Carriers aren't really the problem so much as the clunky UI. Carriers, and spam in general, would be a lot easier to handle if we could get Cryptic to invest a little bit of time in a few adjustments.
  • Tab Targeting that cycles through players only, ignoring NPCs and spam (compliment current targeting options).
  • Fix Target_Enemy_Near to actually target the nearest enemy.
  • Customizable Target Indicators for greater differentiation between the target and surrounding ships, mines, etc.

It won't solve the spam problem, of which Feds are just as guilty, but it would certainly help mitigate some of the headache.

As for the spawn camping, we need to move away from it or we deserve what we get.
All well and good, but can you explain dealing out over 3k in damage and their shields not budging at all? So cycling through a target wouldn't matter in other words if you are locked on to that target dealing that kind of dmg and nothing is happening.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
04-29-2011, 04:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahti-Suniva
All well and good, but can you explain dealing out over 3k in damage and their shields not budging at all? So cycling through a target wouldn't matter in other words if you are locked on to that target dealing that kind of dmg and nothing is happening.
Three thousand damage isn't exactly something to brag about. Powerful hits from some players can deal close to that in a single volley off of bleed through alone. Of course, sometimes the shields actually do drop but the target gets some sort of support that mitigates or completely negates that damage in the blink of an eye. For instance, on several occasions in that short match I managed to land a BO3 that dropped a shield facing and over half hull only to see both shoot back up to nearly 100%. That's just the state of healing in this game. That premade has been working on things for quite a while and to be perfectly honest, we weren't really that much of a threat.

That's not a Carrier issue as much as a statement on healing and resistances. Our lack of coordination certainly didn't work to mitigate that. Anyway, Transfer Shield Strength and EPtS are very powerful shield resists. There was plenty of Extend Shields going on (one target even received two Extends at the same time). Some of the Target System debuffs they were throwing around, as well as Aceton Field that wasn't getting cleared, severely diminish our potential damage output... especially when we can't even turn around to get something in an arc.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
04-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zutty View Post
Hello PvPers.

I am a lvl 51 Fed Science Officer. I currently fly a MVAM Prometheus, with a focus on movement debuffs (tractor beam, target engines, chronitons). It works well on taking down BoPs, but I struggle against carriers, especially 1v1. Since everyone is flying an escort these days, I thought I'd roll a new build, and see if I can focus on an anti-carrier role.

What do you suggest?

My first thought is beam target aux/energy siphon/tyken's rift, etc... to disable pet spawns, but most carriers are likely to run at high aux so it seems like a risky strategy.

I also think that I'll need to tank to a certain degree, to match the carrier's HPS.

Ideas?
Well 1v1 are never a good idea (you just never know for which of you two :p), but for this specifically - movement debuffs are not really what hits Carriers.

If you want to disable or weaken a subsystem, Target Auxillary. All his science powers and his pet deployment rate will suffer. You probably need some stun effect (Trics or PSW) to extend the time he can't react to your firepower. Cannon Scatter Volley or BFAW definitely help with pets.
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