Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 How about this?
05-03-2011, 09:29 AM
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...21#post3519621 For a little background.


We all know that "new FaW" is causing some problems within PVP gameplay. There are still MANY people who consider the Klingon faction and escorts, in general, to be OP with their "spike damage". The EFF engine NERF? However, in each of these instances, there are people who want to keep what's there now or see other problems that need to be "fixed" 1st. Some have even stated they were leaving STO due to some of these, or have left due to past CHANGES/NERFs. PVE players end up being affected via our never ending quest for "balance", most of which don't even come to the forums to see there even is a problem. They just play the game and find something they liked CHANGED/NERFED via a patch. Rage/quit becomes a factor. So, how do we "fix" the problems without affecting the sub base, Cryptic profits, and the funds necessary for continued development for the content/additions that we all would like to see?

I have played another game, off and on for about 7 years, that may have somewhat an answer to this. How about a 25% DAMAGE REDUCTION TO PVP gameplay, ONLY? SOE tried that in SWG and the NERF calls seemed to die out while it was instituted. Almost to the minute that they removed it, the NERF calls came back in full force. While I can be extreemly crticle of SOE Austin, I can also see what worked for the betterment of the game as a whole.

New FaW would only be 75% as devestating as it is now. FAW 5 man "fed balls" end up being 75% of what they are now. Escort/klingon "spike damage" would only be 75% as damaging as it is now. Healing, snare, root, etc would stay EXACTLY the same as it is now in PVP, just if it includes damage, that gets lowered by 25% also. What this would end up resulting in (as I've already seen it happen), was and is;

1. Group tactics would become even more important as it would require group co-ordination to take some1 out effectively and quickly.

2. NOTHING ends up OP in the damage dept. NO 1 shot, 1 straffing run kills (from a single player) and allows the other group more time to respond.

3. NO PVE players get affected. Therefore, all damage is the same in PVE content as it is today. Their game doesn't CHANGE 1 bit.

4. Pretty much NOTHING would end up being considered OP as, depending on who you talk to, it is today. No where near as many NERF calls. No where near as many dev calls for a NERF we didn't even know that there was a problem in. (EFF engine)

5. Not many "Star Players" would be as prevelant as they are today. "Star groups" would still retain their titles.

6. New players to PVP might have a little bit more of a chance than they do today and that can only be a good thing as more PVP players = more PVP going on.

7. Since PVP gameplay is instanced, this should be an easy development CHANGE for Cryptic to accomplish. Just make the PVP instances at 75% DPS power.

I've seen this work before.

I plan to be playing this game for some years and I make this proposal, 1st to the PVP community, with no other agenda than I'd like to see this game continue and have the chance in the market that it deserves. Something like this, or some other variation of it, (depending on what you all think) should get rid of most of the NERF calls, the contention within the PVP community itself, and we all can get back to the instances and our perfered gameplay. (Making players go boom) Might have us all in game a bit more and off the forums, too.

The only downside that I've seen of this, is that combat can be a little more "drawn out". However, personaly, I could consider that a plus also. Giving some1 a touch more time to use all the keybinds, counters, heals, etc (buttons) in this game might make PVP even more interesting and more dependant on co-ordination. Duels would be affected (1 v 1), however, I've seen many calls to make this more of an MMORPG (group play) since STO launched.

We should get a consensus of the PVP community before submitting a proposal such as this, or any for that matter, before submitting a request to Crptic to "make it so". I ask that the PVP community actualy consider ALL the ramifications before making a "knee-jerk" reaction or trying to just perserve their considered damage "OPness".

Red, I'm really interested in what you think of this.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
05-03-2011, 09:35 AM
I think the problem would be the game code. I know the code allows the on off of powers based on instance or map but I do not think their is a big enough difference between PvE maps and PvP maps that would not make things very buggy.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
05-03-2011, 09:48 AM
Your idea = to much to implement .. reject
C-store crap = easy to implement .. moar
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
05-03-2011, 09:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Data
I think the problem would be the game code. I know the code allows the on off of powers based on instance or map but I do not think their is a big enough difference between PvE maps and PvP maps that would not make things very buggy.
Probably only a dev can answer this question. Maybe we can ask a dev to stop by and tell us, 1st, if something like this is even possible before we have a long discussion on the possibilty.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
05-03-2011, 09:57 AM
I fear it would not change anything as those players whom have perfected thier craft at PvP will still be on top of the charts and those whom feel they are being robbed of thier ability to compete will still complain, now with only 25% less power.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
05-03-2011, 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roach View Post
I fear it would not change anything as those players whom have perfected thier craft at PvP will still be on top of the charts and those whom feel they are being robbed of thier ability to compete will still complain, now with only 25% less power.
I see your point here. However, I'm actualy trying not to affect the well "balanced" groups that already use co-ordination and tactics for the "win". They would probably see little effect after a CHANGE such as this.

What might be most affected are the groups that rely on a single DPS power to come in and "faceroll" the win. Cryptic could "up" a power (such as new FaW) without affecting the entire balance of current PVP (as long as they don't go nuts with any certain 1 of them).
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
05-03-2011, 10:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Esquire View Post
Probably only a dev can answer this question. Maybe we can ask a dev to stop by and tell us, 1st, if something like this is even possible before we have a long discussion on the possibilty.
From what i could gather from the chat in OPvP last night with Jheinig and the issues with cloak being bugged I think it would be the same if not more with weapon powers. The cloak bug will require major work on cryptics end they have to decompile the code on every map to fix the cloak bug. I see something similar to make PvP and PvE skill act the same but do less damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
05-03-2011, 10:15 AM
I find it very hard to believe that Cryptic at this point in time has the capability to start running, and maintaining, duplicates of abilities and items. Given the supposed difficulty of fixing something like cloaking, just from a technological stand point I can't see this being pulled off effectively.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
05-03-2011, 10:23 AM
Honest question... will healing also be reduced by 25%. I really don't think the "spike" dmg right now is too much. Spike was toned down a few times... with reductions to Rapid Fires, reductions to crazy crtis. (We don't hit 100k+ Beam Overloads anymore.)

Honestly a Well flown engi anything can tank 3-4 ships almost endlessly. Is dmg a dmg reduction needed. I agree that some cruisers seem to melt under rapid fire / BOL / HY type attacks... of course those that know what there doing will tank that from 3-4 ships with ease.

All a dmg reduction does is give even less incentive to fly anything other then a cruiser.

If spike is to be rounded off any further then healing needs to have diminishing returns... or some sort of Incoming and Outgoing healing needs to be added. Perhaps as some other games have done incoming and outgoing healing ratings need to be implemented so for example;

- Cruisers get an outgoing heal bonus with a incoming penalty (Good at support, large ship size makes beamed over engi teams ect less effective)
- Escorts get an outgoing healing penalty with an incomming bonus (Some thinking the nature of the Escort tac orianted crew and crew size make them poorer healers of other ships... but ship size makes it easier to support)
- Sci ships Perhaps get a more balanced number... being fiar at both incomming and outgoing.
- Changes to some of the engi and sci units to effect this stat... ie Hazard System offers +to outgoing Sif unit overs +to incomming or perhaps new consuls to effect both states.

Bottom line healing is far more out of wack then dmg.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
05-03-2011, 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Honest question... will healing also be reduced by 25%. I really don't think the "spike" dmg right now is too much. Spike was toned down a few times... with reductions to Rapid Fires, reductions to crazy crtis. (We don't hit 100k+ Beam Overloads anymore.)

Honestly a Well flown engi anything can tank 3-4 ships almost endlessly. Is dmg a dmg reduction needed. I agree that some cruisers seem to melt under rapid fire / BOL / HY type attacks... of course those that know what there doing will tank that from 3-4 ships with ease.

All a dmg reduction does is give even less incentive to fly anything other then a cruiser.

If spike is to be rounded off any further then healing needs to have diminishing returns... or some sort of Incoming and Outgoing healing needs to be added. Perhaps as some other games have done incoming and outgoing healing ratings need to be implemented so for example;

- Cruisers get an outgoing heal bonus with a incoming penalty (Good at support, large ship size makes beamed over engi teams ect less effective)
- Escorts get an outgoing healing penalty with an incomming bonus (Some thinking the nature of the Escort tac orianted crew and crew size make them poorer healers of other ships... but ship size makes it easier to support)
- Sci ships Perhaps get a more balanced number... being fiar at both incomming and outgoing.
- Changes to some of the engi and sci units to effect this stat... ie Hazard System offers +to outgoing Sif unit overs +to incomming or perhaps new consuls to effect both states.

Bottom line healing is far more out of wack then dmg.
Agreed! I do, however, think that the damage reduction was meant to be in regards to BFAW only, as opposed to fixing (or nerfing) it. I could be wrong though.
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