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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
This topic for discussion should be reserved for only those who PVP in SPACE constantly and have been PVP'ing in SPACE for at least 2 years. Note the date please... Comments and suggestions are welcome to everyone obviously but please only post your thoughts and ideas to better help the Dev's read easier and to assist them to getting to the root of the issues. PVP Balancing is a serious thing to oversea and as the game evolves, things change and with those new things comes new code and then balancing is done. If it is not done people who devote all their time to it end up quitting the game, usually due to frustration or unfairness and this is something I know Cryptic and us all would like to avoid. Nothing sucks more then an empty MMO. Obviously something is missing being that I am writing this so lets sink our teeth into it together. Greeting fellow Trekkies... This is VA Pr0x. That's right, I am back once again and as always it is my hope to make this game greater. With your help and the eyes, ears and large cups of coffee that our family of Dev teams consume, we are likely to achieve just that if we collaborate together. I took a break for about a year and a half and I can tell you that things have changed drastically in PVP since then. Reading up on the changes to abilities and what they do only does so much. Putting them into action is what it is all about. Whats in black and white is not necessarily going to be fact during game play. Obviously we the people do not have the tools to measure if during a specific situation we are actually getting a benefit to a buff we set on ourselves and to actually see in action the buff working to begin with. We trust in Cryptic to ensure that it does. Frankly I think all things should be tested thoroughly.

Discussion topics:
1) Certain abilities that were changed literally took PVP from Star Trek into Battle Star Galactica. For those who remember the Cylon raiders sending instant virus's to enemy human ships, shutting them down completely leaving them vulnerable to any attack. Certain abilities in STO, when launched in succession together and I will not name which one's because I wish for discussion to open on this; when this series of abilities are launched, the gamer who receives them can't do anything at all and for quite some time. I know a large number of people have learned how to take these unnamed abilities and use them to their advantage as well as setup battle tactics for them when in a group together and all the poor soles who get them, receives, is a blown up ship in less then just 2 seconds of Earth time.

Aside the fact that combat that lasts for 2 seconds is totally not Canon to Star Trek and for a Space MMO in my personal opinion it is completely unacceptable as well as not being fun; I would like to also open for discussion the following...

2) How in gods name was the decision made that states that what we have is "balanced PVP" when The Federation can only choose their bridge officer available slots on their ships that have already been predetermined by the game and on the Klingon side they get universal slots to choose what ever they wish in any slot. Explain how this is justified and give us at least one scenario of when a Klingon ship with universal slots CAN NOT overtake absolutely any Terran ship, 1 vs 1 with any load out, when Discussion part 1 is used on them. If you can come up with one kudos to you...

I will add more as this topic progresses but I hope that we can all discuss this and learn about this not only to stop the whining... but also the yelling in vent from the loser's and those glorified with their heads held high and their noses in the air for being smart enough to find a trick and exploit it when ever they can and not report it to build a more balanced and fun MMO for us all.

PLEASE KEEP IT CLEAN, SHORT AND ON TOPIC. Lets talk about it, discuss what this topic is about and as the public who pays for this game, lets put our heads together on this.

VA Pr0x
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2 Shall I kick it off please
08-01-2011, 10:18 AM
1.) Your post is difficult to read as I was getting sun glare.
2.) Do we have to have this conversation again - KDF get the BOP ONLY universal slots BECAUSE of the lack of SCI ships at lower levels!!!!!!!!
3.) No other KDF ship has universal slots EXCEPT the BOP.
4.) The abilities on both factions are exactly the same. There is no difference, the only one being that the Federation have more career options because that have more races to choose from.
5.) How is a Fed TAC escort hampered by a KDF TAC BOP, a FED Science Ship weaker that a KDF SCI BOP, or a SCI/ ENG build in a MVAE hampered by a SCI/ ENG in a BOP?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-01-2011, 10:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers
1.) Your post is difficult to read as I was getting sun glare.
2.) Do we have to have this conversation again - KDF get the BOP ONLY universal slots BECAUSE of the lack of SCI ships at lower levels!!!!!!!!
3.) No other KDF ship has universal slots EXCEPT the BOP.
Thank you for your reply. I have changed the font back to normal. My apologies for the glare.

I see your point and it is a valid one however if that is the case as you say, and that it is done because of a lack of science ships at low levels then explain to me why continue to use is at lvl cap? Do you not agree that this is a problem for when balancing things out in PVP and both sides at max CAP, both sides do not have the same basic capabilities?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4 Imo
08-01-2011, 10:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0x View Post
Thank you for your reply. I have changed the font back to normal. My apologies for the glare.

I see your point and it is a valid one however if that is the case as you say, and that it is done because of a lack of science ships at low levels then explain to me why continue to use is at lvl cap? Do you not agree that this is a problem for when balancing things out in PVP and both sides at max CAP, both sides do not have the same basic capabilities?
I agree but again it lends itself to the principle of precedent. The universal slot exists now on the BOP. Some love it some hate it, but to suddenly say, alright folks we are taking that away, or folks its time to give it to the Federation, the perception of that will be anything short of a riot.

What I do believe is that there is room for more ships + builds. That is the ultimate solution. Instead of trying to "change" existing content, its time the community start pushing for "new content" - that is the Path to 2409?

Some of these new changes could be tied to a story arc - like a Federation mission where they go someplace and discover the universal-slot defiant , or the KDF the long lost B'Rel that works.

I for one have NEVER liked the idea of picking up my ship at the store???

It should be something earned. A commission. Every level should have a do-or-die epic arc mission attached to it when your new ship is discovered, won and fought for!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-01-2011, 10:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers
I agree but again it lends itself to the principle of precedent. The universal slot exists now on the BOP. Some love it some hate it, but to suddenly say, alright folks we are taking that away, or folks its time to give it to the Federation, the perception of that will be anything short of a riot.

What I do believe is that there is room for more ships + builds. That is the ultimate solution. Instead of trying to "change" existing content, its time the community start pushing for "new content" - that is the Path to 2409?

Some of these new changes could be tied to a story arc - like a Federation mission where they go someplace and discover the universal-slot defiant , or the KDF the long lost B'Rel that works.
Very interesting. While I agree and am always for progression, as well as more content; I have disagree with this universal slot being used at higher levels. Riot or not, crying or not, how can you or anyone else expect the developers to truly call their PVP balanced when any gamer on KDF can do something on their ship that no matter how hard they try, FED's on the other side they physically can not do no matter what they try.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
08-01-2011, 10:53 AM
First, it was very interresting, having a guy that haven't played PvP since launch telling me I'm not able to asess PvP well, when I have PvP'd just about every one of the last 500 days...

First, name one boff setup that the BoP can have that:
- can not be found on a Fed ship
- is better than what you can get in a Fed ship

This used to be the Lt. Cmdr. sci slot, but now the feds have the MVAM that turns better than the BoP, has the Lt.Cmdr. sci slot, has two 25k hp pets, and gets power bonuses. The BoP may be equal to the MVAM if you're PUGing with no healer on your team because of the cloak, but add the slightest amount of teamplay and the MVAM is superior.

Also, haven't you heard? The Defiant is the big OP these days, and is superior to all other ships! Just ask Azurian!

Balance in PvP is better now than ever, and if it gets even a fraction more balanced risk getting boring. Balance does NOT mean that you have identical items on both sides of the scale, just that they have equal weight!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
08-01-2011, 10:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by drkfrontiers
Some of these new changes could be tied to a story arc - like a Federation mission where they go someplace and discover the universal-slot defiant , or the KDF the long lost B'Rel that works.

I for one have NEVER liked the idea of picking up my ship at the store???

It should be something earned. A commission. Every level should have a do-or-die epic arc mission attached to it when your new ship is discovered, won and fought for!
I could not agree more sir...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
08-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Aside from you being a guy who probably pug and have no real experience from playing KDF, dying in two seconds yeah it happens to even the best of ous.
_BUT_ really the problem atm isn't damage or even close to that, its healing that is unbalanced low burst dps, medium sci, high healing setups vs eachother can play for 40minutes and realize that they cannot brake eachother.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
08-01-2011, 10:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorena
Aside from you being a guy who probably pug and have no real experience from playing KDF, dying in two seconds yeah it happens to even the best of ous.
_BUT_ really the problem atm isn't damage or even close to that, its healing that is unbalanced low burst dps, medium sci, high healing setups vs eachother can play for 40minutes and realize that they cannot brake eachother.
Thank you for your post. FYI, i have been here since Beta... Also, welcome to the STO forums... You also have a solid point about healing being unbalanced. Try to elaborate on that instead of posting your thoughts about me...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-01-2011, 10:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pr0x View Post
This topic for discussion should be reserved for only those who PVP in SPACE constantly and have been PVP'ing in SPACE for at least 2 years. Note the date please... Comments and suggestions are welcome to everyone obviously but please only post your thoughts and ideas to better help the Dev's read easier and to assist them to getting to the root of the issues. PVP Balancing is a serious thing to oversea and as the game evolves, things change and with those new things comes new code and then balancing is done. If it is not done people who devote all their time to it end up quitting the game, usually due to frustration or unfairness and this is something I know Cryptic and us all would like to avoid. Nothing sucks more then an empty MMO. Obviously something is missing being that I am writing this so lets sink our teeth into it together. Greeting fellow Trekkies... This is VA Pr0x. That's right, I am back once again and as always it is my hope to make this game greater. With your help and the eyes, ears and large cups of coffee that our family of Dev teams consume, we are likely to achieve just that if we collaborate together. I took a break for about a year and a half and I can tell you that things have changed drastically in PVP since then. Reading up on the changes to abilities and what they do only does so much. Putting them into action is what it is all about. Whats in black and white is not necessarily going to be fact during game play. Obviously we the people do not have the tools to measure if during a specific situation we are actually getting a benefit to a buff we set on ourselves and to actually see in action the buff working to begin with. We trust in Cryptic to ensure that it does. Frankly I think all things should be tested thoroughly.

Discussion topics:
1) Certain abilities that were changed literally took PVP from Star Trek into Battle Star Galactica. For those who remember the Cylon raiders sending instant virus's to enemy human ships, shutting them down completely leaving them vulnerable to any attack. Certain abilities in STO, when launched in succession together and I will not name which one's because I wish for discussion to open on this; when this series of abilities are launched, the gamer who receives them can't do anything at all and for quite some time. I know a large number of people have learned how to take these unnamed abilities and use them to their advantage as well as setup battle tactics for them when in a group together and all the poor soles who get them, receives, is a blown up ship in less then just 2 seconds of Earth time.

Aside the fact that combat that lasts for 2 seconds is totally not Canon to Star Trek and for a Space MMO in my personal opinion it is completely unacceptable as well as not being fun; I would like to also open for discussion the following...

2) How in gods name was the decision made that states that what we have is "balanced PVP" when The Federation can only choose their bridge officer available slots on their ships that have already been predetermined by the game and on the Klingon side they get universal slots to choose what ever they wish in any slot. Explain how this is justified and give us at least one scenario of when a Klingon ship with universal slots CAN NOT overtake absolutely any Terran ship, 1 vs 1 with any load out, when Discussion part 1 is used on them. If you can come up with one kudos to you...

I will add more as this topic progresses but I hope that we can all discuss this and learn about this not only to stop the whining... but also the yelling in vent from the loser's and those glorified with their heads held high and their noses in the air for being smart enough to find a trick and exploit it when ever they can and not report it to build a more balanced and fun MMO for us all.

PLEASE KEEP IT CLEAN, SHORT AND ON TOPIC. Lets talk about it, discuss what this topic is about and as the public who pays for this game, lets put our heads together on this.

VA Pr0x
Welcome back. You really do have a lot to catch up on, lol.

Disables all have counters and there is only one Klink ship type with Universal slots (for which is pays dearly). Aside from a few abilities being buggy, out of line, or poorly tested, balance isn't all that bad right now.
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