Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Subnuc
08-07-2011, 06:56 PM
I get a distinct feeling that Subnucs are beginning to dominate the PvP's.

Is this observation right or is it just me? :p
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
08-07-2011, 07:07 PM
Sci in general.

SNB

Sci Fleet

CPB / Tachyon

Pretty much the road to win right there.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
08-07-2011, 07:16 PM
Yeah havn't you heard its now Rock , Paper < SCI
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
08-07-2011, 07:35 PM
Hahahaha, lovely posts.

/0char
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
08-07-2011, 08:27 PM
Well sci is the class that honestly benefits the most from peng spam capability.
Lt. Commander
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# 6
08-07-2011, 09:33 PM
Yeah, sci needs to kicked down just a notch. Especially sub-nuc and sci fleet. Nothing humongous, just lil' bit.
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# 7
08-07-2011, 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Well sci is the class that honestly benefits the most from peng spam capability.
This I think hits the nail on the head. Pengs are probably the best torpedo you can chooses as a sci. It needs the least amount of skill points (something sci needs more than anyone else), it is easy to get, it is highly effective, it partially bypasses shields and you spare a tac BO-skill because you don't need HYT. I have already a build ready for the time when Pengs are fixed to replace my Quantums. But this only counts for sci ships not necessarily for sci captains.


SNB: Change it now and you have no chance to remove resistance/healing stacks. Making healing even stronger. Yes it might need a change but for now it is a necessary evil.

Sci Fleet: This I agree could need a little nerf. Either just lower the res value or maybe make it dependant on the caster and the receivers aux level. (eg: Caster has max aux you get 30% shield res, plus 0-30% shield res depending on the individual receivers aux level)

CPB/TB: Well I use them myself so might be biased but these two I don't think are OP. CPB I can understand could be a problem if you face a team of sci ships all using it at the same time... but you could say the same of escorts who focus fire and they can make a lot more dmg over time than CPB. Maybe some kind of resist to CPB might be a solution so you don't get hit with it over and over again. TB on the other hand I don't see as a problem at all. The drain prevents a ship to regenerate shields without powers but on its own it is not that great. Both have the problem any shield heal counters them and in the end you still need the weapon power to kill the hull which sci lack most of the time. (By the way could it be that CPB/TB doesn't add to your dmg counter in PvP?)


Anyway I'm not really surprised that the new Peng and the fix of FaW leaded to more sci overall.
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Posts: 120
# 8
08-08-2011, 01:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post
I get a distinct feeling that Subnucs are beginning to dominate the PvP's.

Is this observation right or is it just me? :p
Not my impression. Next question?
Lt. Commander
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Posts: 120
# 9
08-08-2011, 07:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomicile
"No ability on its own is OP."
That cant be right, what skill is more OP then the skill that kills all others?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmoeJoe
subnoob is for people that need to l2p. it was better pre 2.0 before interupt was added. the biggest problem isnt defending or playing against it. its playing with noobs that cant burst, cant hit n run, and use snb as a crutch for every attack pass. snb>spacebar isnt the only recipe for victory. especially humorous is watching a fed endure a subnuke, two, or even multiple and still not go down. no follow up.

u pack 5 sci with snb and ill bring apa gdf and some ctrd trics and never get within your fore 90. science is for noobs. every lamer skill in this game is a sci skill, period. nothing is more op when it comes to cap abilities. each one dwarfs the other class skills. snb s just one of four. sci fleet, scan, and even p fleet are all op imho.

but il. still pwn you
Finally someone with some sense :p

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tidemand82 View Post
Yes Snb is properly the stronges power in STO. But with healing being about 3 times more powerfull than dps imo, removing or nerfing it will only make healing even more powerfull. Dont think thats the way to go
Thats exactly right. Healing is even more OP. But Subnuc against a weak Tactical Escort, can barely handle it without the help of external healing. When I 1v1 with a science it is in all circumstances REQUIRED to keep my TSS2 avaiable until I get the subnuc. I mean, it dominates that specific game. I wait for the subnuc to come and hope for the best. (Now I can handle this particular situation, but it costs me 100x more effort to solve this issue while the Science vessel really doesnt have to think "oh yeez when is the escort gunna pup hiz uber Attackz patternz alphaz attack" (which would be my 'strongest' captain ability APA against the Science vessel. See what im getting at? ^^ Lets all face it guys, Tacticals in Escort are probably the best victim for SNB's. Good cruiser captains can handle a SNB pretty well if you ask me. (Engineers have extra captain heals and cruiser heals, Science has a ship full of heals) While APA cannot stand against SNB. Tacticals (especially in defiant) doesnt have a single bit of resistance while nuked.

Mesa believe that some people here havent flown TACtical in Defiant long enough to know what I mean. And people actually rage over Subnucs here and there, "Argh I hate being subnuced" but the funny thing is next, they jump onto their science toon and they go use it themselves. Ive been in premades for a long time, and the first thing we get to hear in a premade is "10 seconds before I can subnuke him". Get ur brainz working guys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artificialx
Not my impression. Next question?
No. Let them discuss this for a while, I didnt knew this was such a touchy subject :p
I love it ^^

Go on guys, go on.

Besides, I think Ramming speed is also OP, got my highest one yet: 100,000+ :p whoop
errrr Ok lets keep the discussion constructive.

What I really believe, is that Cryptic should have an Objective look at all abilities, especially comparing each and all Captain abilities and REALLY balance them. Seriously normal minded people can do this. What cryptic does now is this: They hear from the community that Subnuc is useless and should be worked on. Next thing cryptic does is make this an uber ability. Without ANY, but if ANY consideration for a balanced game. This went on with all the things in this game, *looks at pengs, FaW, etcetera*

I.e. Put the *'Fleet abilities next to each other and just balance them out like it should. (This goes for ALL abilities) And they should take EVERY aspect in consideration of how or why it could be possibly more OP then another ability. As an example<----- EXAMPLE<<< I dont know the actual numbers.: Science fleet vs Engineer Fleet: 50% Shield resist and the other 50% hull resist. Now lets face it, shields are much stronger then a hull.(And alot more shield heals flying around because hull tanking is just not viable) Would this comparision or balance be right? No. it would not. Does tactical fleet even compete with these? I doubt it. The +30 base dmg increase is almost negliable, comparable to Omega1. (Ofcourse for a longer period of time) but still... the extra bit of accuracy even... I mean i dont see much to no difference when i pop this ability. And dont come with nonsense like if you exactly balance out these abilities nobody would die. Thats pure bullcrap. Abilities are being used tactically (meaning they will be popped at the right time, not just put under your spacebar for that matter). There is enough variation, and which is DPS, Shield, and hull. thats all what counts in a fight. Directly or indirectly. So for all abilities even if they would be properly balanced the game would be so diverse that the endresult could still be 15-0 or 0-15. You name it. When I observe myself and look back in the past on how I was before, I can now tell that at least half of my experience is not based on better weapons or gear, or abilities, its about timing. Your real world timing and response, etcetera. Your experience at maneavring an Escort, because that is not plainly full throtle and steer. Its all the variables combined, powerlevels, throttlespeed, even reversing and stuff. The game is so complex that it would be much more fun while still properly balanced. I cant believe some people do not see this.

Same for holoships. Sure im positive they balanced the firepower of it somewhat, its not powerful, some people dont even feel them shooting at their shields. But do they calculate the reasonably high phaser proc change of these buggy crapfloating objects in space? ofcourse not. These kinds of things im talking about guys. And no im not calling for a nerf here. ^^

Everybody likes to say what they have to say, I might be right, i might not be right. This is how i think about things, and it is solely based on my experience as a space pvper.

Anyways, Im thinking about starting up my first Engineer and take it all the way to Vice Admiral, lets see how I can outtank those pesty Subnukers in the...

Defiant. >:]

^
NERF
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
08-09-2011, 01:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marctraider View Post
That cant be right, what skill is more OP then the skill that kills all others?
which can be cleared with science team of any level.


every skill has a counter, a few even have preemtive counters....


and one thing i dont understand

why the hell do people complain that the cooldowns go so fracking high!? the most the recharge ever actually gets delayed by is 30 seconds! sure the timer says 2-8 mins but once snb is gone it goes back to the time it was at before the snb hit you.

so its only ever 30 seconds of extra down time for a skill. EVER!
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