Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
There had started to be a good discussion on changing/improving Cap & Hold over in the Scramble Sensors thread, so I thought I would give that discussion its own home and open it to other gameplay types, as well.

For existing game-types (Arena and C&H):
  • What about them is done right?
  • What could be added (especially in Arena) to make gameplay more interesting and varied?
  • What changes could be made, aside from added mechanics or objectives, to make the existing game-play types better?
  • Pre-mades vs. PuGs? Separate queues?
  • Rewards? Only for winning? Daily for each game-type?

Other considerations:
  • New game-types?
  • New types of rewards? (PvP-specific)
  • PvE vs. PvP mechanics, should they be separate?
  • Proper response to exploits/broken mechanics?
  • In-game rankings/leaderboards/tournaments?
  • etc.

As always, thanks to everyone that participates in these discussions,
-BRJ
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
09-01-2011, 06:06 PM
While I don't like the whole Pre-Made vs PuG in the same queue... (This affects Arenas much more than C&H, but I'm sure people who are discussing here already know this..)

Due to the fact that Queues won't even pop period without them sometimes makes it a necessary evil..

.. Most likely a bug but Arena spawn points are kind of wonky sometimes.. You can spawn directly behind an enemy (or directly in front of one) that just spawned themselves.. O-o;

I think C&H should have a higher limit and a "tap to change" mechanic, making it less "campy" and more active and forces you to move around different points more often..

I'm not sure if this is the case in OPvP, but this just just observation from queuing..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
09-01-2011, 07:31 PM
Tbo, I'd much rather have Foundry PvP map development options and let the player base's creativity take over for simple instanced based maps. Unless it's actual territorial control with player/fleet controlled space stations I'd rather dev time be spent on other things at this point.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
09-01-2011, 07:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamid
Tbo, I'd much rather have Foundry PvP map development options and let the player base's creativity take over for simple instanced based maps. Unless it's actual territorial control with player/fleet controlled space stations I'd rather dev time be spent on other things at this point.
I would rather they spend SOME time on PvP.

You know they have done nearly NOTHING for PvP. So please.. don't say it is wasted time. We have been neglected for so long, I am surprised anybody even queues up any more.

Time for SOMETHING.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
09-01-2011, 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaruslothran View Post
I would rather they spend SOME time on PvP.

You know they have done nearly NOTHING for PvP. So please.. don't say it is wasted time. We have been neglected for so long, I am surprised anybody even queues up any more.

Time for SOMETHING.
I'd consider making PvP Foundry map development an option to be something. After a couple of weeks I'd expect the 1st decent map or two to come out. After a couple of months or so I'd expect to see better maps than the simple 1 instance maps Devs have released.

Also, my understanding is post the next F.E. there will be new PvP maps based on the F.E. environment. They also have raiding pretty far along in the development process. I just think there's better things for Devs to work on than tuning Arena, C&H, or any other map not fairly far along in the development process already. I'd rather the focus be multi intanced sector space PvP maps player stations et al.

Edit: I really need to proof read my posts. Tonight has been really bad ...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
09-01-2011, 09:20 PM
I really want to see really, really huge open pvp areas where any and all ranks could enter if they choose to. SImple: go in, pvp, have fun.

Maybe it could have some sort of score system or rewards if ppl want. Personally, the points or rewards wouldn't matter to me I just think it would be a lot of fun.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
09-01-2011, 07:31 PM
I would like to see the bases give the team that holds them some tangible benefit. This means that a base may give a side a + to healing or defense or attack.

Also, the bases need to have automated defenses that need to be taken down, before capture,.. after the initial capture. This would prevent any quick flipping by fly by people

Also...

New game mode: Tractor the Flag

1 Flag placed in the middle of the map. The ship who captures it, drags it to the other goal. Now, the ship who is towing the flag can not use any speed boosts, such as evasive maneuvers, deuterium or full impulse. The team has to defend them, as they make their run.

Variants on this can be a flag at each base to be captured. When a flag is taken from a base, the team who's flag was stolen will receive some kind of debuff,. or flip it around and the taker gets a buff.

Just some quick thoughts.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
09-02-2011, 12:50 AM
Arena
They work because they are simple duel of skills in inflicting pressure, spikes and using heals and crowd control.
Their flaw is that the "scenery" they are in has no purpose other than window dressing. It is very unlikely to find anyone actually trying to maneuver through the asteroids to avoid damage or surprise an enemy.

Another flaw of the Arena might be that it can lead to very harsh final results. The moment the teams get unbalanced and a single ship is lost, you become very likely to lose more ships. I could see potential for a variant Arena where the map simply resets once a ship is destroyed, spawning both groups at a respective starting point. (SUch a match might do with less kills.)

Capture & Hold
The good aspect of CnH is that people have a reason to use the "scenery". Overall, the mission objectives leads to very dynamic combat encounters.

The flaw is that the dynamic encounters primarily seem to exist because some people ignore the actual objective and don't try to capture anything, while the rest engages in PvP activities.

As a technical flaw I see that the state of the flags is not easy to read, as there is no progress indicator.

Overall I think Capture & Hold is highly flawed and needs a serious rework.

1) Capturing should provide some perk. For example, spawning a small mine field or turret field, and offering some kind of local or map-wide buff. (Local could be some healing effect, map-wide could be a damage or resistance buff, or a considerable stealth sight buff, dependent on the location)

2) Holding should require presence at the capture point. Your capture point might give you map-wide boons when you're not there, but you should only tick the enemy counter down if you stay there. This requires actually defending held points, and requires holding more points than the enemy.

(The resulting mode might be more of a "Capture & Defend" mode)

Ker'rat
We all know what is wrong with it. In short, we need a different map with the goal of Open PvP.
Less (Borg) NPCs, better chances for both factions to complete the objective.

New Map Ideas
I would like to see some "assymmetric" maps, where each side has different (and opposing) objectives.

Starbase Assault: One side defends an armed starbase from the other side. The attackers have to disable the station's defenses and beam troops on the starbase. The defenders have to defeat the attackers.

Convoy Escort: This is basically in the works with the Open PvP raids already.

Capture the Flag: Some kind of object must be transported to a target location. It might require tractoring or beaming aboard.

Enhanced Arena
Start with an Arena, but add reasons to fly to the "locations of interest". For example, require kills to be made in certain areas of the map to be counted. Provide benefit for a player that flees into certain areas (increased healing, temporary non-nerfed enhanced battle cloak effects). Maybe random mini-objectives, like "destroy NPC ship", "scan object", "reach location" that each team must complete or lose points.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
09-02-2011, 03:36 AM
Last man standing. Self explanitory
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
09-02-2011, 04:25 AM
Arena

For the most part I'm just going to parrot Mustrum. The gamestyle itself is fine, but the environments are really lacking. Cracked planet has the best potential with its gas clouds, but they are far too spartan and too near the fringes to be of any use. The asteroids occasionally come in to use, I do use the environment if the opportunity arises, but battle tends to occur above the environmental obstructions/traps. We need many more traps/hazards/cover sites in more opportune areas.

I think an arena map in the badlands would be a great zone for environments. Make the plasma storms do damage in the range of a decent EWP with a snare like GW1, and make them common enough to be strategically useful.

Simply, more diverse maps are needed.

CnH

More maps needed, for a start, just 1? Seriously? Bah!

More obvious indicators of capturing progress desperately wanted.

I'd rather not have more deployable objects. Perhaps some kind of virus upload to take over the sites defences and have them fire directly from said base at targets of opportunity.

Bases should require an active presence of a certain minimum number of players in order to be captured. Increase the capture range slightly too perhaps so you have a little more freedom to move and still defend the site.
Bases should grant a passive buff to all players on that side while captured, varying depending on what function the base has. One may enhance sensors and targeting for the team, one may grant a defence and repair boost, another an offence and debuffs the enemy somehow, things like that.

Other gamestyles
There is talk of them bringing on king of the hill. There are surely many more they can bring in that have been discussed among the community before.
Assasin, re-vamped assault, capture the flag, to name but a few.
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