Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dstahl View Post
...I can assure you there are no restrictions on content access, including future Feature Series. In addition, subscribers should notice little to no change. As far as I've seen, any changes in price will be to lower prices on some items.

That aside, if you don't like the game, you don't like the game. The entire concept of F2P is that you don't have to pay for the game. You can play it for free and if you like... {Source}
The above quote is from the, at the time, Executive Produce of Star Trek Online, Dan Stahl (posted Sep 1, 2011), in an attempt to calm the masses that things weren't going to be so bad come STO: Free-to-Play. This "subscriber" would like to make the following list of "little" changes that I happen to notice. (And yes, I know Dan is gone, but his words still matter.) Some of the items on this list may be "forward thinking", but most are on Tribble now.

Negative Changes
* No VA Ship Token:
Originally all ship tokens were removed from the game. Cryptic restored subscriber Ship Tokens for ranking up through Rear Admiral, but they have not restored the Vice Admiral/Lieutenant General Token. You want a new ship for your End Game? C-Points Only. Details:
http://startrekonline.com/node/2654 (About Ships/Tokens).
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3806649 (Why VA is gone.)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=239471 (Token = Vet Reward.)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3845135 (My response.)
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2678 (New Blog)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3852908 (Latest response)

* Dilithium Added to Crafting:
Uncommon and rare even-mark gear, and all very rare items require a dilithium fee. The current fees are high and not much lower than regular vendors, even though the player still needs to also include standard crafting material (anomalies and schematics). There has been much gnashing of teeth on this one from the playerbase. Cryptic, has said they're looking at it, but Dil is here to stay. Details:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=237412
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=239471 (Latest response)

* In-Game Ships Removed:
The T3 Nebula and T3 Excel are no longer purchasable via Energy Credits, and the Delta Flyer can no longer be crafted. Also, in addition to the VA/LG tokens being removed (see above), the Fed VA Retrofits, D'Kyr, Nebula, and their KDF counterparts are no longer even grindable via an in-game currency. All these ships are now C-Store only (but see below about Exchanging for C-Points).

* C-Store Prices got Jacked-Up!
Roughtly 80% of the items in the C-Store had their prices raised! I thought paying $15 for a ship on the C-Store was bad. I mean at 1200CP that's a month's worth of subscription fee for the whole game for just one ship. Now those same ships are 1600CP (or $20).

* The Relentless Nerf:
The Relentless vet reward has been Nerfed. After paying for 500 days, a player would be gifted 250 Emblems as part of his Veteran Reward. That portion of the reward has been removed. We're told that Cryptic is "working on something else to fill in that spot" with something that they are "looking at", and "currently exploring the possibility" of, but "nothing is set in stone yet." The VA Ship Token got added here. It's unclear if this is a separate add/fix for pulling the Token in the first place or replacement for the Emblem Nerf (or both). Relevant quotes/my further opinion/thoughts are here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3787572
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3796966
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=239471
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2678 (New Blog)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3852908 (Latest response)

* Time-Gated Currency/Conversion:
Regardless of how the numbers are tweaked, I don't think subscribers should be subjected to a time-gated currency conversion process. If a player pays $15 a month and wants to spend 10 hours on a Saturday, earns 40,000 Dil, then he should get to spend it right there on whatever shiney new toy he wants. He should not have to wait 5 days to refine it. They want to time-gate Silvers? I got no problem with that.

Further, I am very against the fact that when Holodeck characters are moved to F2P Land, some currency we have already earned may be given to us as Ore, meaning it's being restricted from our use for a time. Details/rant here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3818473

* Bind-on-Pickup Dilithium Items:
On Holodeck now, Badge and Emblem items are Bind-on-Equip. This means I can spend my time earning these tokens and sell the resultant spoils to other players for EC. Also, and more importantly to me, I'm a player who likes lots of characters (I have 20 now, only 8 are at End Game). As I level-up new alts I can buy gear for them from my main characters, this especially being true with Emblem gear. When my new toons reach VA/LG, I do not have to grind with them. I can >poof< give the Alt any Epic Gear they need.

With Dilithium replacing all the "good gear" currencies, and Dil items beign BoP, I won't be able to do either of these tasks I can now do with my sub. I can see that Dil is a "time currency" that's related to money that Silvers aren't paying in subs, so they want each player to have to grind... But to get the Dil to begin with, the time has already been spent by me. In game I may be nearly two-dozen people. In real life, I'm only me. I can only grind so much. Perhaps they can allow inter-account trading, at least for Gold members.

* C-Store items become Single Purchase:
What was originally discovered and justifiably raged-over has been cleared-up. Existing players' account-wide unlocks of already purchased/awarded items will be grandfathered-in. Still, I think new C-store items (like pets, tribbles, etc.) being per-item single-purchases is not a wise idea, so I'm leaving this in the "bad" area.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3837437 (How it "works.")
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3839578 (Stormshade explains/apologizes.)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3839654 (New characters retain unlocks.)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3839727 (Ships to remain account-wide.)
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3840094 (Geko's addional info.)
Positive Changes
* New Content:
DOff System/Assignments, STA "Particle" Game, Mirror Event, "rebooted" STFs, Tour the Galaxy, Borg Ground Event (So far, unreleased), etc. These are great. It's too bad Cryptic has intentionally witheld the release of some of these for F2P Launch, making the Holodeck Drought even longer, but once things go live, hopefully we'll get a lot more content down the line. (Not holding my breath.)

* 400CP Monthly Stipend:
This would be especially full of win if it wasn't for the fact that the C-Store prices got jacked-up (see below), effectively nerfing this out of the box. Still, ultimately it's a boon.

* Modular Ship Powers:
Some ships with special powers got those powers removed from the generic UI and turned into a "console" that can be added or removed as the player would like. Many (most?) of these are useable on other ships of the same class (Escort, Cruiser, Sci, etc). Most ships that got their power "consolized" also got an extra slot to put it in resulting in a net loss of zero to keep your power. I like this idea of modularzation and the variety that it brings to the game. Still, it's not perfect. I much rather these were quest rewards, crafting items, or otherwise in-game unlocks. Instead they are C-Store purchased and there is debate about this (see "Pay-to Win" below), also in the process they Nerfed the T5 Excel (see below).

* Klingon Academy:
It's long overdue, but it's pretty cool. Nothing much to do there yet, but a mini-game similar to SFA is supposed to be coming soon.
(Now continued in the next post...)
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
10-19-2011, 06:05 PM
(Continued from post #1...)

Uncertain Changes
* New Economy:
This should be good a good thing. I love the idea that all those miscellaneous badges, marks, medals, emblems, etc. have been condensed into a universal currency. This reduction in complexity should be great! However, as things are shaping up now, it's becoming the opposite.

For starters, Dilithium this isn't a single currency. There is Ore (which is unusable, and what you get from most missions, rewards, etc.) and Refinded (the version you can actually spend). The two are fully under a Cryptic-controlled, time-gated, limiting process called Refining that converts "bad" Dilithium Ore to "good" Refined Dilithium. Subscribers should not be time-gated (see above).

Dilithium is looking like it's going to be uber-grindtastic and all around Bad. Especially the way Dilithium is insinuating it's way into every portion of the game. Cryptic is locking away all the good stuff behind the Dilithium key, and each player must pay the piper individually. You can't craft around it (again, for the better items), and even the formally BoE Emblem Gear is now BoP (see above).

The currency unification has been further muddled by the new STF "currencies" - Where we used to simply have Marks of Valor we now have a plethora of "tokens" that are exchanged for "requisitions" to "buy" ("craft"?) the awesome new STF gear. I love the choice this allows, but so far feel it's implementation is confusing and overpriced (ie grindy). (Details here and here.)

Anyway, I'm going to leave the Economy under the Uncertain section, because I want to hope it all won't be so evil as it feels now. Maybe when the dust settles, Cryptic gets their test data, tweaks the numbers, etc. Things will be fair and reasonable. Yeah. It might happen... Anyway, here's a Dev blog on the subject:
http://www.startrekonline.com/node/2638

* The Dilithium <-> C-Point Exchange:
Instead of buying C-Store items (ships, etc.) with saved-up Emblems or Badges, the "in-game" method for buying C-Store items will involve a special Exchange whereby a player can somehow trade the in-game Refined Dilithium currency for the out-of-game C-Store C-Points.

This is not in Tribble yet, so details are sketchy. The jist is that you can buy other players' purchased/stipend CP that they are selling (at an unregulated/market-controlled rate) with your Dilithium. My gut feeling is this will also be Bad, at the very least it won't be a "sure thing" like grinding for 500 Emblems, but I'm trying to reserve judgement and be hopeful. Some interesting/related links:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3808687
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=3808600

* Respec Purchases:
Subscribers still get Respec Tokens from ranking and Vet Rewards. These should be plenty for most players. However, some people really are into tweaking, and the in-game method to buy additional respects via Merits (or Honor) has been removed. I do not believe an alternate currency can be been used (such as Dilithium or EC). So if you run out of the freebies you have to buy from the C-Store (at nearly double the pre-F2P price). I'm not yet sure if this is working as intended, nor exactly how it would affect game play either way. Personally, now that I know how the skill system works, it's pretty easy to get the character I want within one or two adjustments, which I'll get for free. YMMV.

* Pay-to-Win:
The New Wave of C-Store ships (and potentially other items in the future) are Tier +1, they "are typically slightly stronger in some way, and they include a valuable piece of gear that is only available with that ship." - This is known as "Pay-to-Win" (P2W). I know most people consider this a negative, and on some levels I do too (my rant/thoughts here (link coming soon)). But there are others that don't. Not to mention this has been going on more and more in the game for a long time, so it's not really a "change" and I could accept it they don't take away what they sell you (see Excel Nerf, above). For now, I'm going to leave this squarely in the Uncertain section. Related link:
http://startrekonline.com/node/2654

* Forced Mission Progression:
On Tribble you're forced to perform the Story Missions in a particular order. You can't skip one if it's broken or say if you're on a duplicate character and you simply don't like a particlar episode. This has even caused problems where VAs can't get to Borg Space because they've not got to the mission that sends them there. I don't like the Forced Progression, but have put it in Uncertain because the EEPH has said it's bad and it will be changed.

* Klingon Faction Reorganization:
The Klingon Faction used to be unlocked once a player's first character completed Lieutenant 5, reached Lt. 6 (Level 6), and achieved the Blood of the Warrior accolade. Any new Klingon Defense Force (KDF) character created after this would start at Lt. 6, but then be able to level-up from there. When F2P goes live, the KDF will now unlock and start at Lt. Commander 7 (Level 17). Cryptic has starved the KDF faction to such a point that they finally had to admit it's only a half-faction (at best), and they are trying to compensate for that. I know many players are upset by this, and I can understand why.

Cryptic says they want a strong faction and in the future they'll relaunch the KDF as such. We all know the many broken words Cryptic has said about the KDF going back to STO Beta (those who don't know can click here). I'm only "reporting" the (still) current state of things. Suffice to say, I'll believe it when I see it. I too feel the pain of my Klingon Brethern, so please let us not use this thread to devolve into another KDF rant. (I thank you for your restraint.)

However... Like it or hate it, it's true there really isn't enough KDF content at this time for a full game play experience, so maybe this isn't really that bad of an idea. I'm putting this in Uncertain, as only time will tell. Details on the new Half-KDF:
http://startrekonline.com/node/2637
Revoked Changes
* T5 Excel Nerf - Fixed
10/31/11 Update: The Excel is being reverted to match Holodeck (11/04 Fix is made). On 10/20 the T5 Excel on Tribble was given a nerf, which included some console switch-a-roo non-sense and the loss of 1/3 of it's TW powers. This is great news!
History: Original Nerf Release Notes, Comments: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6].
I will try to keep up with changes as they occur. I welcome your on-topic posts and comments. If you notice a change in the game I haven't mentioned, please post that too.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
10-23-2011, 05:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatricianVetinari
Reserved for additional changes...
Well i dont mean any disrespect but what there going to say is well he is no longer with the company and there not responsible for his comints, so i bet every one quoting what he say means nothing to them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
10-23-2011, 09:11 PM
Good Summery, its clear that in fact subscribers are indeed loosing out and having a lesser experience then is currently on live despite Cryptics claims subscribers wont notice much differences.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
10-24-2011, 04:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMerzan
Well i dont mean any disrespect but what there going to say is well he is no longer with the company and there not responsible for his comints, so i bet every one quoting what he say means nothing to them.
Actually it does serve a purpose.... it's good for a chuckle. Quoting former employee's as an example of why nothing should change pretty much weakens the whole argument.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
10-24-2011, 01:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jollyrogers
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainMerzan
Well i dont mean any disrespect but what there going to say is well he is no longer with the company and there not responsible for his comints, so i bet every one quoting what he say means nothing to them.
Actually it does serve a purpose.... it's good for a chuckle. Quoting former employee's as an example of why nothing should change pretty much weakens the whole argument.
I could remove the quote and the rest of the list of changes would still stand for it's purpose: To track changes in gameplay between P2P/F2P, and to judge them (at least as told from my perspective/opinion) as good or bad. That said, I think the quote strengthens the argument.

Dstahl wasn't just any employee. For a time he was the Executive Producer. He was the (figure)head of STO. When a President of the United States of America leaves office, you can bet the new Pres will be held accountable to previous Pres actions. Every new regime will make changes. A new Pres gains merit by changing unpolular policies, and loses points chainging popular policies. By quoting Dan, I am holding Cryptic to their "old" standards.

It's about keeping score, and Dan's quote tells everyone where the starting line was.

As things move negatively away from that line Cryptic is held accountable. If displeasure is expressed, Cryptic might revoke or rework the bad stuff (ship tokens were (mostly) given back, for instance) or even make improvements (I can't compliment Heretic enough for his amazing work and collaboration with the community on the DOff System). Ultimately it's their company and their product; their choice. Likewise, it's my money they'll lose if they push things too far. That's my choice. How else are they to know what's too far if they aren't informed?

No disrespect felt from you CaptainMerzan. I welcome all such polite comments. Also, I'm amused that the Jollyrogers got a chuckle from his visit here. I'm curious, are you two content with how things are looking and how your subscription model is changing? How would you want things different?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
10-24-2011, 01:37 PM
edit: off-topic, removed at the request of the OP. Sorry
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
10-24-2011, 04:58 PM
Cool thread, glad someone is keeping score. I'll keep my eye on this one.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
10-24-2011, 04:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenEricII

Actually, it doesn't make me chuckle. If anything I'd shed a tear. I'd be saddened that we lost Mr. Stahl because PWI wants to turn STO into another Korean grind fest MMO and forced Dan out because he stood against it.
It's been pointed out that PWI has/had a hands off policy towards their western purchases. Specifically with Torchlight. So it's really more likely this is all on Cryptic's shoulders, or at worst/best Cryptic egregiously misunderstanding PWI's directives.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
10-24-2011, 09:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GenEricII

Actually, it doesn't make me chuckle. If anything I'd shed a tear. I'd be saddened that we lost Mr. Stahl because PWI wants to turn STO into another Korean grind fest MMO and forced Dan out because he stood against it.
Dan's at Zynga. I don't think he'd be standing against anything we're seeing here "on principle" when every complaint I see here is about something central to (and about 50x as prominent in) Zynga's philosophy.
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:19 AM.