Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
As a engineer in a cruiser, I'm usually just a healbot. Throw ETs, Aux to SIF, maybe an extend, but in the past, I could at least throw some DPS around to make a difference.

Now, in this MACO and Klingon honor guard shield environment, I still throw heals and... well, that's all I feel like I'm doing. The new gear, in themselves, isn't all that bad. Maybe a little too strong, but the engineer set of skills, well, despite being mostly the same, have little to no offensive utility, unlike sci and tac. It feels like everyone has some tanking ability now, and since that's always been the hallmark of engineers (and, to an extent, Sci), well, it kinda makes us redundant. Tac can just throw on more dps, and sci can just generally make your life more miserable, offensively or defensively.

My worst fear is that I'll run into a game full of engineers with new shields. Tac and Sci is fine, but dear god, if two engineers meet the first to fall asleep will be the only one dying. Tac and Sci will at least wear down an engineer. The opposite isn't true anymore.

Yes, it's always been this way somewhat, but a cruiser could always lay down a weight of fire from a broadside to at least discourage an escort. Even with a full set of MK XI purple beams, EPtW, and FaW, a escort can now just park itself off my broadside and happily shoot away. I pose absolutely no threat.

I don't know what needs to change. The shields, the skills, both? If anyone has any in game solutions, I'd be happy to hear them.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-21-2012, 08:09 AM
I see where you're coming from. I play an Eng/RSV mostly.

Some matches, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard, just mashing spacebar and throwing a heal or two around every now and then. Other matches, though, I'm frantically throwing everything I've got to teammates and aching for RSF to come off of CD.

It all depends on what kind of match you're thrown in, but on average (imo), the game has taken a turn towards more of a yawn-fest thanks to the new gearsets/DOffs. Anyone and everyone can tank. Even a Tac/Defiant can be one tough cookie with 3/4 Borg + MACO shield, a few Shield Distribution DOffs, and some of those nifty ones that reduce the CD of EPtS.

Hull tanking is meh, but shield tanking is even more ridiculous now than it was before.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-21-2012, 10:25 AM
i dont think anything is wrong with the tanking. What you are forgetting is that with all the new gear/skills etc which are geared toward tanking, the equal has not come for dps. There has been no increase to dps, no increase to the dps that guns do, better consoles for more damage etc...

the only thin which has increased is our ability to tank. so the ability to do more damage needs to be increased. unfortunately the skills which enable higher damage to be applied are all high level skills ltcmdr or cmdr. A lot of nice tanking skills are ensign/lt level, yes the level 3 skills are better but, the ensign/lt tanking skills are far above the skills for ensign/lt tac skills. cannon rapid fire 2, csv 2, thy 2.....need improving in damage.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-21-2012, 11:22 AM
This is why, as an engineer, I dropped my cruiser for an escort about 8 months ago. Apart from not liking the star wars feel or the appearance of the escorts, I've found the change to be very beneficial.

I found that while I lost out on raw heals (not as much as you'd expect), I could just as easily shield tank, since the difference in shield cap is rather small, the escort gets an innate bonus to it's defense and speed, it's far more manoeuvrable (and so can turn a down shield away quickly).

Now I very specifically hunt beam using cruisers when just want some light fun, especially tacts in cruisers. They either drop dead quickly, take a bit of time or simply tank like crazy, but they are never a threat. Sci-ships are dangerous, escorts are extremely dangerous, Fed cruisers though are heal-boats pure and simple and good for nothing else (something which PvEers are finding to be more and more apparent when they do elite STFs).

There are so many reasons for this:-
* Shields and hull seem to balanced in a way to give the target ship a chance to repel an attack by someone with DHCs. In comparison beams really don't measure up.
* The hull/shield buff all ships got back when they decided to have hulls buffed by lower tier ship skils.
* The reliable Borg hull/shield heal proc.
* The change to power drain (the original way the game handled power drain, gave the cruiser the edge when it came to sustained DPS due to power management skills). Also, to be honest, the old power drain method required you to think more.
* The field generator Mk XI (which I think was the one of the worst additions to the game along with the borg set bonus).
* The bonus to defense escorts got.
* Easy access to tact team without any real loss of bite.
* Hull tanking skills like attack pattern delta and omega.

Basically, all this pushed the escort well and truly out of it's danger zone and is now at a safe spot in terms of tanking.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-21-2012, 03:53 PM
Team play requires team play. That meaning if you are supporting your team and you are exploding then it's because your team didn't bring extend shields to support the support player. Keep at it you'll be fine.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-21-2012, 04:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rickhowdy View Post
Team play requires team play. That meaning if you are supporting your team and you are exploding then it's because your team didn't bring extend shields to support the support player. Keep at it you'll be fine.
Someone, over any issue, chimes in and makes the excuse "It's a team game."

To be fair, it absolutely is. If I healbot all the sci and tacs, they can devote their time to killing the other team. If I'm attacked, I try to tank the damage till my teams offense can take the heat off of me.

At least, ideally, that's how it should work. In realty, if everyone's competent, a combined assault from as few as 1 or 2 tac/sci on one engineer will overwhelm an engineer's defenses. A good defense does not make a good offense right now. A good offense DOES make a good defense though, and tac and sci have plenty of it, if properly specced. A properly specced engineer will just last a little longer. If it takes too long, their offense can switch targets, and ream another ship while the engineer has spent all his abilities. He probably has some offensive tac Boffs left, but those won't matter a bit.

Sci can go defensive or offensive, depending on Boffs. Even Tac can use AP Delta or Omega, and go evasive for significant defense. Engineers are stuck with defense, defense, and more defense. Defense as offense only works if you can wear down your opponent. Instead, Engineers are constantly kept off guard, and unable to dent any of the new shields.

The game has wildly oscillated between too much healing and too much damage in the past. Now, because of the new shields, it's in a very weird place, giving too much defense to those who shouldn't have it, and negating the offense of those with too little.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-24-2012, 06:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruis.In View Post
i dont think anything is wrong with the tanking. What you are forgetting is that with all the new gear/skills etc which are geared toward tanking, the equal has not come for dps. There has been no increase to dps, no increase to the dps that guns do, better consoles for more damage etc...

the only thin which has increased is our ability to tank. so the ability to do more damage needs to be increased. unfortunately the skills which enable higher damage to be applied are all high level skills ltcmdr or cmdr. A lot of nice tanking skills are ensign/lt level, yes the level 3 skills are better but, the ensign/lt tanking skills are far above the skills for ensign/lt tac skills. cannon rapid fire 2, csv 2, thy 2.....need improving in damage.


Actually i have had no issue with dps from my 3 Antiproton DHC, (emblem gear). And my opinion is that no one ship should be able to kill another one ship assuming that thay are of equal skill and built within the purpose of there respective disipline. In other words, a cruisar should be able to out tank 1 escort and an escort should be able to escape from a cruisar. Sci ships are still wild cards to me becasue i have yet to successfully pilot one. This game has always required team work and I hope it stays that way. New gear and new abilities are inevitable, i just hope we dont enable a one man show.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8 Need Help?
01-22-2012, 10:46 PM
Hey man message me sometime in game. I'm one of the best tank/dps cruiser players in the game. I'll show you how to damage as an engineer and laugh at a premade trying to destory you.

More than happy to help you or anyone else out there that needs it.

Just message me at one of the following:

#1. Luke@Capt_Luke
#2. Gommo@Capt_Luke
#3. J'Var@Capt_Luke

Take Care!
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-22-2012, 11:32 PM
The STF gear & doffs have made ships much harder to deal damage too let alone kill. Imo, this was by design to placate those who complained the fights were too short. An unintended result is the modest damage cruisers generally did is now much lower and the need to cross heal is less. My general suggestion would be to use phasers to try and trigger its proc, target subsystems (engines and shields), ewp&apb, tractor beam/tbr, cront mines/torp (ie less sci heals more sci cc, more spikes of disruptive/disabling tac skills less focus on continuous pressure dps tac skills).

Or switch to another ship until the wheel turns and offense gets buffed like FaW was for many months (pretty much 1/2 year boost for cruiser last year if my memory serves me correctly).

Or switch to KDF fly a BoP and make the most out of using high engineer power levels with w/e you want to fill the universal slots with. This way regardless of what the fotm op powers are you can adjust how you see fit.

Keep in mind w/the current op p2w model there will always be a new op power around the corner. It's bound to hit cruisers again like faw did last year. Since most players focus on Feds it'll last quite some time too, remember last years FaW? Be patient your P2W Enterprise is just around the corner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10 well
01-23-2012, 02:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Otheym81 View Post
As a engineer in a cruiser, I'm usually just a healbot. Throw ETs, Aux to SIF, maybe an extend, but in the past, I could at least throw some DPS around to make a difference.

Now, in this MACO and Klingon honor guard shield environment, I still throw heals and... well, that's all I feel like I'm doing. The new gear, in themselves, isn't all that bad. Maybe a little too strong, but the engineer set of skills, well, despite being mostly the same, have little to no offensive utility, unlike sci and tac. It feels like everyone has some tanking ability now, and since that's always been the hallmark of engineers (and, to an extent, Sci), well, it kinda makes us redundant. Tac can just throw on more dps, and sci can just generally make your life more miserable, offensively or defensively.

My worst fear is that I'll run into a game full of engineers with new shields. Tac and Sci is fine, but dear god, if two engineers meet the first to fall asleep will be the only one dying. Tac and Sci will at least wear down an engineer. The opposite isn't true anymore.

Yes, it's always been this way somewhat, but a cruiser could always lay down a weight of fire from a broadside to at least discourage an escort. Even with a full set of MK XI purple beams, EPtW, and FaW, a escort can now just park itself off my broadside and happily shoot away. I pose absolutely no threat.

I don't know what needs to change. The shields, the skills, both? If anyone has any in game solutions, I'd be happy to hear them.
Sad to say eng heal builds arenít all that great I mean my eng star cruiser can on average heal for 1.-1.5 mil but my science can hit that number and more ss and snb oh did I mention it also can turn.
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