Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 dreadnought build varient
01-29-2012, 06:35 PM
Going to mainly talk about two different dreadnought build here and will also discuss some "do"s and "don't"s when flying a dreadnought. Wall of text alarm.


Beam array DN:
Front: 4 beam array (or 1 DBB+3 beam array)
Back: 4 Beam array
Console: Tact - 3 X damage specific console (will be either phaser or AP, will dicuss different later)
Engi - Shield Generator, 2 X neutron. alloy, 1 other of your choice (personally will go for 3rd
neutron for pve, and cloak for pvp)
Sci - Borg assimilated module, Enhanced plasma manifold (for free player, just swap the EPM for
other thing you like, won't make much a different since most sci console make hardly any
differences anyway)
BoFF: must have skill - EPTW (preferable rank 1 X 2 since you can cycle them, not only give u 10%dmg,
also it can help you reach 135 weapon cap very easily)
ET, RSP (rank 1 will be ok, some ppl run 2 RSP, that's ok too, but since you can only
use 1 every min, i think 1 is enough for critical situation.), EPTS, DEM (work great
with BFAW, 1 is ok, 2 work as well, but will reduce survibilty a bit), BFAWX2 (Rank1)
optional skill - ST, TT, PH, TB, APDelta, BOverload

Cannon DN:
Front: 1 DBB + 3 cannon
Back: 4 turret
Console: same as above
BoFF: simliar to above, but you will want to go for more dps oriented than beam array type, I will dicuss why later. Just swap the beam skill with CRF, keep Boverload if you want to run burst DBB (or throw in a Target shield/weapon), otherwise just go for TT.

"Do"s and "Don't"s
1. IMHO Dreadnought shouldn't equip torp. Because first of all, you don't turn very well, you are ok in pve since most AI are stupid, but in pvp you will find it is much harder to line up that 90 degree arc not to mention if your target shield is up, you will do very little damage. Beside that you can free up tons of skill points if you don't torp at all, and that will benefit into way better survibility.

2. RCS, I never like the idea of putting RCS on a DN. Because even with multiple RCS, you will never turn like a escort or ligher size cruiser, if one of those is on your butt, doesn't matter what you do, u will not be able to shake it off doesn't matter how many RCS you have. On the other hand, putting Neutron alloy give you 24/7 defense (1 = about 18%, 2 = 30%, 3 = 36%).

3. Phaser or AP? TBH you can't never go wrong with phaser on a DN, since your lance is phaser damage, and phaser is very good pvp energy type. But that doesn't mean AP isn't good at all, AP give you about 2-2.5% extra overall damage (since it give 2.5% crit chance and at end game, your crit severity is close to 100% with skill and weapon bonus), but on the other hand your lance won't hit very hard, so it is kind of trade off in between steady dps vs burst dps. Personally I go for phaser since I don't need to swap weapon for pvp.

4. Boverload is it good? Well, lots of ppl will think, hey the answer must be yes. Well I found that to be very situational. First of all, since you are running 8 energy weapon on your DN, your weapon level could drop as low as 7x when all things are firing. If you add a 50 weapon cost BO on top of that, after each BO fire, it take at least 2 cycles of attack in order for your weapon power level to go back to the normal range. That mean you are dealing sub-par damage for 2 full cycles. So it pretty much go back to the same drawing board where "steady dps vs burst dps", there is no certain answer to that, it really just depends on your play style or what you need in certain situation.

5. DBB or just go for 4 x Beam Array: same as above, if you want to run BO, then sure feel free to fit in a DBB, but if you just want good steady dps, 4 Beam Array is good as well since your BFAW will give you better steady dps.

6. Beam Array vs Cannon: each has it's pro and con. For Beam Array, you will have a very easy time when you boardsiding, it is very easy to maneuver; but it does less dps than Cannon build since skill like DEM and CRF work better vs single target. For Cannon, it is easy to maneuver as well, but if someone is at your butt, you will be dealing less damage than Beam array build (tbh, not like it matter at all), it has superior single target dps, but BFAW will do a lot more damage to multiple targets(BFAW does good damage to single target as well, but just not as good as CRF especially when you have DEM on). For pre-made pvp, I would go for cannon since you will be bursting a single target most of the time, but for pug pvp where people just random shoting at things, BFAW will help you top the damage chart everytime I promise (since you can cycle 2 BFAWs, which mean you can BFAW every other 10 sec)

7. Tact. Engi or Sci? First of all, DN is not a support ship at all, it's role is like a "tank" (not tank in MMO terms, but tank in real life terms). You can take lots of hit while doing very good damage. But it act poorly when you try to support others, so you should either choose to do either hitting hard or tanking good. So I am just gonna dicuss Tact. vs Engi here. For Engi, obvious you will have better survilibity, but at what cost? 90% of time at end game (both pvp and pve), you either tank easily or you can't tank at all. Engi. DN can tank 3 or even more borg spheres in Elite STF, so does a Tact. DN. Tact. DN (or nobody) can get 1 shoted by a Elite tact. cube, so does Engi. DN. You won't find significant different in survibilty between a Tact./Engi. DN in pve. For pvp Engi. does survive little better than Tact., but still nobody can survive if 3-5 ship is focusing on you. On ther other hands, Tact. does significant damage compare to Engi. especially in pvp when bursting down someone is No. 1 piority. I personally will go for Tact. DN very time, but some ppl may prefer to be an Engi. DN and that's fine, just play style differences.


That's it for now, feel free to dicuss.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
01-29-2012, 08:18 PM
I disagree with several points, but trying to debate them openly would be walls of text of my own and I'm tired.

Rather I'll just reference my thread and points I've made. Most are already familiar with it enough to know what I'm talking about.

Still, interesting ideas and you do have some solid points imho. But... there are points that I can call out as either false, or missing vital notes.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
01-29-2012, 08:32 PM
I'm guessing you've never tried reverse with Evasive Maneuvers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
01-29-2012, 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCSWW View Post
I'm guessing you've never tried reverse with Evasive Maneuvers.
I know what you talking about, I am not saying you can't land a 90 degree arc or even a 45 degree with DN at all, i am just saying it is not as easy and it require more effort especially if you against a target that manevuer 3 times better than you. And TB can always solve all turn problem anyway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
01-29-2012, 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
I disagree with several points, but trying to debate them openly would be walls of text of my own and I'm tired.

Rather I'll just reference my thread and points I've made. Most are already familiar with it enough to know what I'm talking about.

Still, interesting ideas and you do have some solid points imho. But... there are points that I can call out as either false, or missing vital notes.
I know your build and personally i tried it too, it does have the highest burst possible for a DN w/o a doubt and it serve it's purpose well. But for me I am more of a steady dps guy (you can tell, i bring that up a lot in my post), if i go for the big 50k(or even more if you lucky) trico, I have to spend quite some points into the torp. skills. The way i look at it is for torp build i can get a 50k hit every min (not considering factor like crit, Duty office skill proc etc.), that result of a 800-900 dps, on the other hands swaping the torp with a cannon, i do roughly the same dps w/o sacrificing valueable skill points. I think at the end, it just all come down to which way people prefer, steady dps or burst.

I kinda write everything on top of my head, so sorry if i don't go into detail or providing notes. Hell, I am even too lazy to edit all the typo. But I am definitly up for dicussion and if you want to point out false, please feel free, learning from mistake is what make us better and better anway.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
01-29-2012, 09:28 PM
on a side note, i wish there is some kind of target dummy and build in dps meter in the game. I mean every MMORPGs has that now day right?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
01-29-2012, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillson18 View Post
I know your build and personally i tried it too, it does have the highest burst possible for a DN w/o a doubt and it serve it's purpose well. But for me I am more of a steady dps guy (you can tell, i bring that up a lot in my post), if i go for the big 50k(or even more if you lucky) trico, I have to spend quite some points into the torp. skills. The way i look at it is for torp build i can get a 50k hit every min (not considering factor like crit, Duty office skill proc etc.), that result of a 800-900 dps, on the other hands swaping the torp with a cannon, i do roughly the same dps w/o sacrificing valueable skill points. I think at the end, it just all come down to which way people prefer, steady dps or burst.

I kinda write everything on top of my head, so sorry if i don't go into detail or providing notes. Hell, I am even too lazy to edit all the typo. But I am definitly up for dicussion and if you want to point out false, please feel free, learning from mistake is what make us better and better anway.
Yes, but in PvP, sustained DPS can have its downfalls as well.

In PvP, you must deal more damage than your enemy can heal for to be effective.

With a burst, you're guaranteed to trump your enemy's ability to recover every single time.

With sustained DPS, you run the risk of a good (or even a mediocre) healer being able to keep up without too much difficulty.

Yes, you still have your lance to "burst", but it won't be near the same effect. Your enemies will be able to recover. That recover will cost you dearly both short term and long term.

PvE it's great though.

But, it has merits in PvP too.

Main thing though that I want to bring up that is a BIG no-no with your build... EPS.

You MUST have an EPS in a Gal-X, even as an Engineer, to be truly effective.

1 is all you need, but it is necessary.

Cloak in PvE is still very viable. It allows you to close on Cubes to point blank without worry and unleash your full burst at point blank for maximum effect, WITH a +15% damage increase due to decloaking.

Those are points that I am firm about, and won't waver. Other points you've made are preference based.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
01-29-2012, 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin
Yes, but in PvP, sustained DPS can have its downfalls as well.

In PvP, you must deal more damage than your enemy can heal for to be effective.

With a burst, you're guaranteed to trump your enemy's ability to recover every single time.

With sustained DPS, you run the risk of a good (or even a mediocre) healer being able to keep up without too much difficulty.

Yes, you still have your lance to "burst", but it won't be near the same effect. Your enemies will be able to recover. That recover will cost you dearly both short term and long term.

PvE it's great though.

But, it has merits in PvP too.

Main thing though that I want to bring up that is a BIG no-no with your build... EPS.

You MUST have an EPS in a Gal-X, even as an Engineer, to be truly effective.

1 is all you need, but it is necessary.

Cloak in PvE is still very viable. It allows you to close on Cubes to point blank without worry and unleash your full burst at point blank for maximum effect, WITH a +15% damage increase due to decloaking.

Those are points that I am firm about, and won't waver. Other points you've made are preference based.
I do strongly agree with you about burst in pvp, in fact I stated that in pvp burst down someone is No. 1 piority. steady dps is indeed more of a pve oriented build,

On the EPS part, I do agree EPS is an important console for DN especially running majority energy weapon, and I would definitly put it on the 4th engi. slot for many situation, but on the other hand, i found having 2 neutron alloy greatlly reduce the damage you take and increase survibility quite a bit. And I don't use cloak for pve, the reason i found is in pve you are in combat 90% of the time, in order to cloak i have to disengage, re-position and re-engage. That took away quite some time and whenever i am doing that i am not dpsing. Also in order to achieve highest burst in pve, you need to time your skills CD which means lots of time you have 1 buff that is already off-CD while other still during CD and you just have to wait for all of them. If you go for steady dps, that timing become less essential (except when you bursting with lance) because for most part you can just use whatever buff availiable to you at any given time.

For pvp, I do strongly agree cloak is a must have, but personally I will drop the EPS and go for 2 neutron (I don't really run Beam overload, so energy level is still acceptable w/o an EPS) because I think an extra 12% resist is quite significant. But I think if you want to achieve the ultime burst goal, that's different story.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
01-31-2012, 04:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hakaishin

Main thing though that I want to bring up that is a BIG no-no with your build... EPS.

You MUST have an EPS in a Gal-X, even as an Engineer, to be truly effective.

1 is all you need, but it is necessary.
I'm sure I'm just missing something, but is this to offset the power drain of phaser lance / energy weapons? If so, I thought that EPS was changed a while back so it really didn't help with that. Am I in error here?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
01-31-2012, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlothfulDragoon View Post
I'm sure I'm just missing something, but is this to offset the power drain of phaser lance / energy weapons? If so, I thought that EPS was changed a while back so it really didn't help with that. Am I in error here?
You are in error.

It was nerfed from the old 110% increase to 70%, but the effect is the same regardless.

It isn't just for that, however.

It is used to better accommodate skills like Emergency Power to Shields.

It is used to accomodate the ability to swap power settings mid-fight (which EVERY good PvPer should be accustomed to) to fit the situation (shield power when focused, aux power when healing, engine power to retreat, etc).

You're nerfed if you're not taking advantage of all of these things.

You cannot effectively take advantage of them without an EPS.
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