Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
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I remember vaguely that in DS9 it was no more thant 3-4000 ships. That doesn't seem nearly enough for this time period when the Federation is basically at war with everyone. Even leaving out the game mechanics. They must have had a massive build up of forces in order to sustain a war effort on just about every front. So what do you guys think?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
02-17-2012, 10:19 PM
There would have to be at least that many front line vessels. Probably just as many 2nd and 3rd tier reserves pulled out of mothballs for interior security and general business.

Wouldn't be surprised if the total was considerably more than that really.

My question is how to they manage to train all those personnel at one academy?

I would think all the Federation founding worlds (at least) would have full academies with other key systems having lesser academies for the first 2 or so years of the basics before students transfer to one of the main academies.

Think along the same line as colleges. Its not uncommon for students to take basic requirements at a local college before transferring to a larger university for final specialized classes. This would explain why all the shows characters went there, they are the absolute cream of the crop.

Using that analogy, SFA Earth would be a Harvard/Yale etc equivalent. Other founding worlds would be major state colleges, Tennessee State or Oklahoma State for example. This would be where the general rank and file of Star Fleet would be educated. All excellent officers, but not quite as highly qualified as the guys who get into SFA Earth.

Other worlds would be local community colleges for very basic training. Anyone and everyone could start here and move up as they qualify.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
02-17-2012, 10:52 PM
I read somewhere that Ron Moore believed Starfleet had between 30,000 to 40,000 ships at anyone time. However, it's one of those things that Trek writers wisely never clarified.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
02-17-2012, 11:07 PM
It seems to be all over the bored. I just watched an episode of DS9 and the Dominion fleet that was trying to get through the wormhole was 1600 ships and it was pretty much said that it would be game over if they managed to get to the Alpha Quadrant.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
02-18-2012, 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DKeith2011
There would have to be at least that many front line vessels. Probably just as many 2nd and 3rd tier reserves pulled out of mothballs for interior security and general business.

Wouldn't be surprised if the total was considerably more than that really.

My question is how to they manage to train all those personnel at one academy?

I would think all the Federation founding worlds (at least) would have full academies with other key systems having lesser academies for the first 2 or so years of the basics before students transfer to one of the main academies.

Think along the same line as colleges. Its not uncommon for students to take basic requirements at a local college before transferring to a larger university for final specialized classes. This would explain why all the shows characters went there, they are the absolute cream of the crop.

Using that analogy, SFA Earth would be a Harvard/Yale etc equivalent. Other founding worlds would be major state colleges, Tennessee State or Oklahoma State for example. This would be where the general rank and file of Star Fleet would be educated. All excellent officers, but not quite as highly qualified as the guys who get into SFA Earth.

Other worlds would be local community colleges for very basic training. Anyone and everyone could start here and move up as they qualify.
In regards to Starfeet Academy, you are misunderstanding what type of school it is. Graduates of SFA are Ensigns. That's the absolutely lowest rank one could possible be and still be an officer. Ensigns are superior in rank to Starfleet cewman. From the movies and series we mostly see officers of Starfleet. But Officers are not the bulk of Starfleet. That would be the crewman. The grunts and non-commisioned officers that do most of the grunt work.

That means that Starfleet Academy is the equivalent to the present day Officer Candidate School (OCS) and 4 year university. You attend an OCS if you want to gain a commission. SFA does teach other courses to make a well rounded officers. And it's nice to see that Starfleet Officers aren't above getting their hands dirty.
Lt. Commander
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# 6
02-17-2012, 11:15 PM
Well, taking into account Picards statement in First Contact that the Federation is spread across 8,000 Light Years with "over 150" member planets, as well as the assertion that there are over 1,000 semi-autonomous colonies within the Federation..

Population statistics in Trek are rather hard to come by, but, according to the Brain Trust that Bashir tried to cure, genetically modified genius' with severe emotional problems all, estimated that the Federation would take 900 Million casualties to the Dominion (in losing).

Now, if we take these numbers as being considered catastrophic for the Federations Population, then we can probably estimate that 900 Million casualties would be the entire populations of several planets. Lets assume 300 Million per planet in the Federation, some more, some less, but averaging about 300 Million.

At 150+ Planets, at ~300 Million people per, that's somewhere on the order of 45 Trillion Federation citizens on member worlds, plus more than a Thousand Colonies (which may have populations numbering anywhere from a few thousand to a few million).

Now, assuming ~2% of those populations join Starfleet in some capacity, That's 900 Million members of Starfleet (or, all the casualties projected by the Brain Trust). Now, assuming 3/5 of those members of Starfleet are not on ships, but running Starbases, Drydocks, Shipyards, Clerical Functions, Public Relations and Diplomatic personnel, that's 360 Million members of Starfleet in ships.

With Crews numbering from 1500 (Odyssey) to 35 (Defiant) that's somewhere between 240 Thousand and 10 Million + ships.

These numbers are all very loose of course and my estimates could be way off, but still..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
02-17-2012, 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
...

With Crews numbering from 1500 (Odyssey) ...
Does it got upped in the latest patch? Last time I looked at it it was at 1000, which surprised me a bit, because I read somewhere that it was supposed to have about 1200 and the Bortas dwarfs that number even more with massive 2500.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
02-17-2012, 11:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by anothername View Post
Does it got upped in the latest patch? Last time I looked at it it was at 1000, which surprised me a bit, because I read somewhere that it was supposed to have about 1200 and the Bortas dwarfs that number even more with massive 2500.
I was going from memory on that particular point.. And for some reason I can't find a Dev Post with the actual number.. I'll have to go in-game and find it, I will update my previous post if I find myself mistaken.

My Game Client is being picky and freezing up. But I know the Odyssey had more than a Thousand because I know the Galaxy Class has a crew of a thousand, and the Odyssey is supposed to be bigger..
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
02-17-2012, 11:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katic View Post
Well, taking into account Picards statement in First Contact that the Federation is spread across 8,000 Light Years with "over 150" member planets, as well as the assertion that there are over 1,000 semi-autonomous colonies within the Federation..

Population statistics in Trek are rather hard to come by, but, according to the Brain Trust that Bashir tried to cure, genetically modified genius' with severe emotional problems all, estimated that the Federation would take 900 Million casualties to the Dominion (in losing).

Now, if we take these numbers as being considered catastrophic for the Federations Population, then we can probably estimate that 900 Million casualties would be the entire populations of several planets. Lets assume 300 Million per planet in the Federation, some more, some less, but averaging about 300 Million.

At 150+ Planets, at ~300 Million people per, that's somewhere on the order of 45 Trillion Federation citizens on member worlds, plus more than a Thousand Colonies (which may have populations numbering anywhere from a few thousand to a few million).

Now, assuming ~2% of those populations join Starfleet in some capacity, That's 900 Million members of Starfleet (or, all the casualties projected by the Brain Trust). Now, assuming 3/5 of those members of Starfleet are not on ships, but running Starbases, Drydocks, Shipyards, Clerical Functions, Public Relations and Diplomatic personnel, that's 360 Million members of Starfleet in ships.

With Crews numbering from 1500 (Odyssey) to 35 (Defiant) that's somewhere between 240 Thousand and 10 Million + ships.

These numbers are all very loose of course and my estimates could be way off, but still..
What your saying makes complete sense and its what I would think. However I'm not sure if it matches what the shows have said especially DS9, unless Sisko is just being a drama queen. I'll have to research it some more.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
02-17-2012, 11:39 PM
The Seventh Fleet had 112 ships.

Check this link out:
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Operation_Return

For one of the most important battles of the war the Federation and Klingons were only able to muster about 600 ships in order to try and stop the Dominion from clearing the minefield around the wormhole. Either Starfleet is made up of horrible tacticians (we pretty much know this is true lol) or they didn't have more than a couple thousand ships total. Mind you this was 6+months into the war.
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