Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
I would like to know, what is the order of operations with regard to how the weapon damage modifiers work and in what order?

What is calculated first, Weapon base damage, Console upgrades, skill bonus, Bridge officer abilities or weapons power settings?

Basically, Iím trying to figure out the complex math that goes on behind the scenes so that I can understand how people are doing 4,000 + damage with an energy weapon single shot at a time. W/O beam overload.

Any help would be so very welcome. Thanks guys.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-20-2012, 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
I would like to know, what is the order of operations with regard to how the weapon damage modifiers work and in what order?

What is calculated first, Weapon base damage, Console upgrades, skill bonus, Bridge officer abilities or weapons power settings?

Basically, Iím trying to figure out the complex math that goes on behind the scenes so that I can understand how people are doing 4,000 + damage with an energy weapon single shot at a time. W/O beam overload.

Any help would be so very welcome. Thanks guys.
I'm not sure of the exact order, but I do know that consoles and skill points only add a percentage of the base damage. I think boff and captain abilities, like FAW, BO and CSV, CRF, FOMM, SenScan, APO, GDF all apply their maths after the consoles.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-20-2012, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
I would like to know, what is the order of operations with regard to how the weapon damage modifiers work and in what order?

What is calculated first, Weapon base damage, Console upgrades, skill bonus, Bridge officer abilities or weapons power settings?

Basically, Iím trying to figure out the complex math that goes on behind the scenes so that I can understand how people are doing 4,000 + damage with an energy weapon single shot at a time. W/O beam overload.

Any help would be so very welcome. Thanks guys.
Check the "Insights..." link my signature, at some point I believe CaptainGeko posted some insights and I put the information somewhere in that thread. When I come back less lazy, I may quote it again.

Usually in STO, there is no "order of operations". There are basically two concepts:
1) Multiply stuff. Like Shield Resistance. 10 % shield resist means a damage multiplier of 0.9. If you got 10% twice, you get 0,9 * 0,9 = 0,81 = 19 % shield resist.
2) Add stuff and put it some crazy formula. Armor Resists work like that. Skills work like that. And also damage multipliers. 20 % damage bonus means that 20 % is added to all the other modifiers and then the total is multiplied by the base damage. 20 % + 20 % = 40 % = 1.4 x base damage.
What makes things more complicated is that Rarity, Ship Level and skill level are all seperate multipliers and not all of them are immediately apparent.


Unless I am mistaken, one special exception seems to be energy levels. They apply an additional multiplier to all the rest. So at level 50 with a damage bonus of +100 % for a Mark X weapon, +100 % for a Tier 5 ship and +110 % for weapon skill bonuses and +30 % from some buff , you'd have an effective +340 % from the standard Mark 0 item. But at 100, it's effective twice that. (IIRC the energy formula correctly).
I presume that Auxiliary Power works in a similar manner.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-21-2012, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Check the "Insights..." link my signature, at some point I believe CaptainGeko posted some insights and I put the information somewhere in that thread. When I come back less lazy, I may quote it again.

Usually in STO, there is no "order of operations". There are basically two concepts:
1) Multiply stuff. Like Shield Resistance. 10 % shield resist means a damage multiplier of 0.9. If you got 10% twice, you get 0,9 * 0,9 = 0,81 = 19 % shield resist.
2) Add stuff and put it some crazy formula. Armor Resists work like that. Skills work like that. And also damage multipliers. 20 % damage bonus means that 20 % is added to all the other modifiers and then the total is multiplied by the base damage. 20 % + 20 % = 40 % = 1.4 x base damage.
What makes things more complicated is that Rarity, Ship Level and skill level are all seperate multipliers and not all of them are immediately apparent.


Unless I am mistaken, one special exception seems to be energy levels. They apply an additional multiplier to all the rest. So at level 50 with a damage bonus of +100 % for a Mark X weapon, +100 % for a Tier 5 ship and +110 % for weapon skill bonuses and +30 % from some buff , you'd have an effective +340 % from the standard Mark 0 item. But at 100, it's effective twice that. (IIRC the energy formula correctly).
I presume that Auxiliary Power works in a similar manner.
Thanks! I'll have to create a spreed sheet to figure this stuff out... but it is a nice start.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-21-2012, 08:51 AM
I have a nice working spreedsheet that seems to be fairly accurate. Any Idea's how to get it onto this thread as a link or maybe image?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
03-21-2012, 10:14 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teleon View Post
I have a nice working spreedsheet that seems to be fairly accurate. Any Idea's how to get it onto this thread as a link or maybe image?
Well, putting in a link should be easy, so I presume you want to know how to get it hosted on some web server?

One crude way may be to turn it into a image file like a JPEG and upload it to some image service like tinypic, imageshack, photobucket, flickr or locr and put a link to where you can find it there. (Make sure the image is accessible to everyone, some services may by default only show it to yourself or friends.)

I don't know stowiki's policies on authoring, but it could also be a potential avenue to create a wiki entry there and put the image there (and maybe they also allow other formats)?

Oh, and my laziness wore of long enough to find Geko's post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainGeko
Here is how it works. There are a lot of diminishing returns at that level. You will see more on an impact with weapons that do more damage. You will also see a higher impact at lower levels because at higher levels, all your bonuses start to diminish.

This is how it works. All values are approximate, and I apologize if I get any of the basic math wrong. Its 10am and I am hopped up on cold medicine fighting off bronchitis.

Here is part of the basic formula: BaseDamage X (1+ sum of all DamBonus)
Let's say you have a weapon that does, say 25 damage (I'm making this value up, but its probably similar to the turret in question).
Itís a mark 11, so it has a natural DamBonus 1.05
You are probably in a tier 5 ship that grants a DamBonus of 1
You probably have skills that grant a DamBonus of around 1
Each Damage enhancement has a DamBonus 0.1
Each non-damage enhancement now grants a .025 DamBonus (note, Damage enhancements did not get this extra damage bonus)

SoÖ

In the old system, his green weapon, with one Acc enhancement would yield:
25 X (1+3.05) =
25 X (4.05) =
101.25

In the new system, that same green weapon, with one enhancement would gain an additional .025 DamBonus and would yield:
25 X (1+3.075) =
25 X (4.075) =
101.875

In the old system, his purple weapon with two Dam enhancement and one Acc enhancement would do:
25 X (1+3.25) =
25 X (4.25) =
106.25

In the new system, that same purple weapon, with two Dam enhancement and one Acc enhancement would gain one additional .025 DamBonus and would yield:
25 X (1+3.275) =
25 X (4.275) =
106.875



At low level, let's say Lt Grade 2, you would notice more of an impact. Let's compare a Mark 1 weapons.

Same turret would have the same base damage: 25
Itís a mark 1, so it has a natural DamBonus 0
You are probably in a tier 1 ship that grants a DamBonus of 0
You probably have no skills that grant a DamBonus , so this value is also 0
Again, each Damage enhancement has a DamBonus 0.1
Again, each non-damage enhancement now grants a .025 DamBonus (note, Damage enhancements did not get this extra damage bonus)

Now a White Mark 1 with no enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0) =
25 X (1) =
25

Now a Green Mark 1 with 1 Acc enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0.025) =
25 X (1.025) =
25.625

Now a Green Mark 1 with 1 Dam enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+0.1) =
25 X (1.1) =
27.5

And a Purple Mark 1 with 3 ACC enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+.075) =
25 X (1.075) =
26.875

A Purple Mark 1 with 2 Damage enhancements and one Acc enhancement would yield:
25 X (1+.225) =
25 X (1.225) =
30.625

A Purple Mark 1 with 3 Damage enhancements would yield:
25 X (1+.3) =
25 X (1.3) =
32.5


Thatís a lot of math. I hope I got it all right. In any event, it should give you a general idea of what's going on.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-21-2012, 10:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Well, putting in a link should be easy, so I presume you want to know how to get it hosted on some web server?

One crude way may be to turn it into a image file like a JPEG and upload it to some image service like tinypic, imageshack, photobucket, flickr or locr and put a link to where you can find it there. (Make sure the image is accessible to everyone, some services may by default only show it to yourself or friends.)

I don't know stowiki's policies on authoring, but it could also be a potential avenue to create a wiki entry there and put the image there (and maybe they also allow other formats)?

Oh, and my laziness wore of long enough to find Geko's post:
Dangit, I have to re-do my math because of the acc dmg being added on etc. I only calculated base damage without those modifiers. But at least I know how to get 1500dps without them, per each beam weapon.. hahah.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-21-2012, 10:20 AM
Ignore this... for some reason... double posted.. lol
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-21-2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MustrumRidcully View Post
Usually in STO, there is no "order of operations". There are basically two concepts:
1) Multiply stuff. Like Shield Resistance. 10 % shield resist means a damage multiplier of 0.9. If you got 10% twice, you get 0,9 * 0,9 = 0,81 = 19 % shield resist.
Actually since Season 5 this isn't true anymore. When I last checked in January, shield resists are back to being additive. I haven't noticed anything in patch notes addressing this issue.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-22-2012, 01:23 AM
Interesting. Something for this thread: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho....php?p=4113056
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