Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Concept: K'Vort
03-22-2012, 04:30 PM
Let me start off by saying that I’m a huge Star Trek fan. I’ve seen many episodes, but not all of them. My favorite villain of all time is the Borg. It’s a great show. One of my favorite species is, of course, the Klingons. They’re delightful. I’ve enjoyed watching some of the Klingon-centric episodes (Redemption, Soldiers of the Empire, and Shadows and Symbols, et al.), so one thing is a sticking point in STO’s KDF for me.
Where’s my K’Vort?
For those of you that don’t know what a K’Vort is, it’s basically the B’rel’s big brother. Really big brother. Typically, K’Vort-class Battle Cruisers come in sizes close to that of a Vor’Cha. They’re seen in such episodes as TNG: Redemption (IKS Hegh’Ta, and the ships Kurn defended the IKS BortaS from), TNG: Yesterday’s Enterprise (the Klingons that attacked the Enterprises), and Star Trek III and IV (The HMS Bounty). They’re distinguishing feature is the wings (swept UP instead of DOWN, like the B’rel; or in STO, a B’rel out of combat). Of course, that would be a sticking point. We have up-wings in-game already. Problem is, they go from super-awesome-gorgeous to hunched-over-stubby as soon as someone so much as looks at you aggressively.
So, I propose the following:
1: Make the wing animation optional. Put an option in the Ship Tailor to turn it off, and select which style you want when it’s off. That’s something that I think should have been done a long time ago.
2: Introduce the K’Vort as a Lt.G. Heavy Battle Cruiser Retrofit, essentially a sized-up B’rel model with some touched-up art, which is effectively what a K’Vort is. 4 Forward/Aft Weapons, base hull 37,000, 1500 crew, standard Cloak, turn rate of 10. 4 device slots, 3 Tactical Console slots, 4 Engineering Console slots, 3 Science Console slots (+1 over the Negh’Var). Commander/Lt.Cmdr. Engineering BOff slots, Lt. Tactical BOff slot, Lt./Ensign Universal BOff slots (Negh’Var setup, but exchange Ens Eng and Lt. Sci for Universal), +10 Weapon/Engine power setting. Comes equipped with a new console:

Console – Universal – Energy Compression Chamber
+5% extra chance to proc energytype debuff
+20% All Energy damage
+7% Weapon Power drain when firing weapons.
+5% Crit Chance
+25% Crit Severity
This console allows your weapons’ prefire sequence to compress the energy bolt, making them do more damage on impact by packing more energy into the hit, at the cost of a slightly higher energy requirement.

Ship Database entry: The K’Vort-class Cruiser was a mainstay in the Klingon fleet for over a century. When Klingon starship designers looked at it, though, it was clear that it did not meet the needs of the new battlefield, but they did not want to do away with an iconic design of Klingon Imperial might. So, they went to the drawing board and updated the ship’s weapons and spaceframe. The ancient symbol of the Empire had regained its teeth, and would serve as a symbol of the Empire’s eternal strength.
This new, stronger K’Vort is the model Klingon ship. Sturdy, cheap to construct, easy to maintain, and the home of an arsenal. What’s more, it’s deceptive. This ship, seen as out-dated by the Empire’s foes, will be full of surprises when it reaches the battlefield.

So, who’s boarding the K’Vort?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
03-22-2012, 04:45 PM
I like the concept, but if I had a choice between the K'vort and the B'rel.....it would be a hard decision.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
03-23-2012, 01:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord-Ice
Let me start off by saying that I’m a huge Star Trek fan. I’ve seen many episodes, but not all of them. My favorite villain of all time is the Borg. It’s a great show. One of my favorite species is, of course, the Klingons. They’re delightful. I’ve enjoyed watching some of the Klingon-centric episodes (Redemption, Soldiers of the Empire, and Shadows and Symbols, et al.), so one thing is a sticking point in STO’s KDF for me.
Where’s my K’Vort?
For those of you that don’t know what a K’Vort is, it’s basically the B’rel’s big brother. Really big brother. Typically, K’Vort-class Battle Cruisers come in sizes close to that of a Vor’Cha. They’re seen in such episodes as TNG: Redemption (IKS Hegh’Ta, and the ships Kurn defended the IKS BortaS from), TNG: Yesterday’s Enterprise (the Klingons that attacked the Enterprises), and Star Trek III and IV (The HMS Bounty). They’re distinguishing feature is the wings (swept UP instead of DOWN, like the B’rel; or in STO, a B’rel out of combat). Of course, that would be a sticking point. We have up-wings in-game already. Problem is, they go from super-awesome-gorgeous to hunched-over-stubby as soon as someone so much as looks at you aggressively.
So, I propose the following:
1: Make the wing animation optional. Put an option in the Ship Tailor to turn it off, and select which style you want when it’s off. That’s something that I think should have been done a long time ago.
2: Introduce the K’Vort as a Lt.G. Heavy Battle Cruiser Retrofit, essentially a sized-up B’rel model with some touched-up art, which is effectively what a K’Vort is. 4 Forward/Aft Weapons, base hull 37,000, 1500 crew, standard Cloak, turn rate of 10. 4 device slots, 3 Tactical Console slots, 4 Engineering Console slots, 3 Science Console slots (+1 over the Negh’Var). Commander/Lt.Cmdr. Engineering BOff slots, Lt. Tactical BOff slot, Lt./Ensign Universal BOff slots (Negh’Var setup, but exchange Ens Eng and Lt. Sci for Universal), +10 Weapon/Engine power setting. Comes equipped with a new console:

Console – Universal – Energy Compression Chamber
+5% extra chance to proc energytype debuff
+20% All Energy damage
+7% Weapon Power drain when firing weapons.
+5% Crit Chance
+25% Crit Severity
This console allows your weapons’ prefire sequence to compress the energy bolt, making them do more damage on impact by packing more energy into the hit, at the cost of a slightly higher energy requirement.

Ship Database entry: The K’Vort-class Cruiser was a mainstay in the Klingon fleet for over a century. When Klingon starship designers looked at it, though, it was clear that it did not meet the needs of the new battlefield, but they did not want to do away with an iconic design of Klingon Imperial might. So, they went to the drawing board and updated the ship’s weapons and spaceframe. The ancient symbol of the Empire had regained its teeth, and would serve as a symbol of the Empire’s eternal strength.
This new, stronger K’Vort is the model Klingon ship. Sturdy, cheap to construct, easy to maintain, and the home of an arsenal. What’s more, it’s deceptive. This ship, seen as out-dated by the Empire’s foes, will be full of surprises when it reaches the battlefield.

So, who’s boarding the K’Vort?
I've been looking forward to flying a K'vort for years now and I was rather frustrated that it was mentioned in "The Path to 2409" but not in the game at all.

However I feel the need to add a few comments if you don't mind:

the size was always around 300 meters, even the appearently gigantic ones in "The Defector" were no bigger than that as opposed to the Vor'cha's roughly 480 meters.
The Bounty was not such a big ship, she was a small model, otherwise she would not have fit onto the screen when landed.

There has been dicussion about the wing-position thingy and it appears they can't make it optional and even worse the models there are rigged up like this can't be converted back.
So they'd have to make a new model (or use a backup of an older model) and then decide where to set the wings and then keep them there.
The only other option I see would be to put two (or more) alternate wing positions into the the game's tailor so that just like you can decide which type of module to stick on an RSV or Nebula you can chose to use wings that are for example "up" "down" or "horizontal".
Appearance-wise I'd propose slight changes to the model compared to the smaller BoPs anyway to make it clear this is not the same ship:
add a few rows of windows to the ship like the K't'inga has and also put in a few visible escape pods (we know the K'vort has those from DS9:"Penumbra") similar to those visible on the alternate Negh'var skin.


I like your special ability idea very much and I'd like to add an idea for an alternate one, not because mine is "better" or anyhing like that but I think it would fit the K'vort as well:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...1414h50m37.png

these scenes are from "Redemption" pt.1 and as you can see the torpedo fired at Gowron's ship doesn't even resemble a Photon Torpedo.
So my proposal is not a console but a weapon (like the Bio-Neural Torpedo) that does not do kinetic damage but energy-based damage (after that BortaS' port shields were down) so the K'vort has something that is somewhat unique to her that is based on the shows.

*EDIT: I took a close look at yur stats and I'm a bit puzzled:
-the ship has the same turnrate as the Vor'cha and more hull
-it has 10 console slots instead of the regular 9
is this supposed to be a "plus one" ship?*
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
03-23-2012, 11:36 AM
I am still waiting for the Chancellor class ships to make it in game as a T-5 Vor'Cha.


We also need a Negh'Var Refit "Sword of Kahless" class... but alas, we went a different way with the new flagships.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
03-23-2012, 11:47 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleto_Deadman
I am still waiting for the Chancellor class ships to make it in game as a T-5 Vor'Cha.
I find it unlikely they'll ever bother doing the thing they did with the Luna for the Chancellor, itÄs just a KDf ship after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleto_Deadman
We also need a Negh'Var Refit "Sword of Kahless" class... but alas, we went a different way with the new flagships.
I'm not sure whether I ever heard that one as a designation for a Negh'var variant.
I know it's the ship Makrtok used after the events of the "The Left Hand of Destiny" novels, but beyond that...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6 This design has my support
03-23-2012, 01:03 PM
The K'Vort has always ranked up there with the K'Tinga. Its a classic design. Personally I would love to see Cryptics impressions of her in the 24th century.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
03-24-2012, 12:37 AM
love the console I would hug it if it was real. <3
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
03-24-2012, 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleto_Deadman
I am still waiting for the Chancellor class ships to make it in game as a T-5 Vor'Cha.


We also need a Negh'Var Refit "Sword of Kahless" class... but alas, we went a different way with the new flagships.
You can do a very nice Qang (Chancellor) class by putting a Tor'kaht main hull on a Vor'cha retrofit. Matches the cover art from the IKS Gorkon almost perfectly.

As for the K'vort... well, I've long thought that the so-called B'rel Retrofit is really the K'vort. Scale aside, it's a giant BoP (look at the relative hull and weapons!). Would just be nice if there was a better scaling option so it could be a similar size to the Hegh'ta.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
03-25-2012, 05:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
I've been looking forward to flying a K'vort for years now and I was rather frustrated that it was mentioned in "The Path to 2409" but not in the game at all.

However I feel the need to add a few comments if you don't mind:

the size was always around 300 meters, even the appearently gigantic ones in "The Defector" were no bigger than that as opposed to the Vor'cha's roughly 480 meters.
The Bounty was not such a big ship, she was a small model, otherwise she would not have fit onto the screen when landed.

There has been dicussion about the wing-position thingy and it appears they can't make it optional and even worse the models there are rigged up like this can't be converted back.
So they'd have to make a new model (or use a backup of an older model) and then decide where to set the wings and then keep them there.
The only other option I see would be to put two (or more) alternate wing positions into the the game's tailor so that just like you can decide which type of module to stick on an RSV or Nebula you can chose to use wings that are for example "up" "down" or "horizontal".
Appearance-wise I'd propose slight changes to the model compared to the smaller BoPs anyway to make it clear this is not the same ship:
add a few rows of windows to the ship like the K't'inga has and also put in a few visible escape pods (we know the K'vort has those from DS9:"Penumbra") similar to those visible on the alternate Negh'var skin.


I like your special ability idea very much and I'd like to add an idea for an alternate one, not because mine is "better" or anyhing like that but I think it would fit the K'vort as well:

http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/805...1414h50m03.png
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/6...1414h50m16.png
http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/159...1414h50m28.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1...1414h50m32.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/2...1414h50m34.png
http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6...1414h50m37.png

these scenes are from "Redemption" pt.1 and as you can see the torpedo fired at Gowron's ship doesn't even resemble a Photon Torpedo.
So my proposal is not a console but a weapon (like the Bio-Neural Torpedo) that does not do kinetic damage but energy-based damage (after that BortaS' port shields were down) so the K'vort has something that is somewhat unique to her that is based on the shows.

*EDIT: I took a close look at yur stats and I'm a bit puzzled:
-the ship has the same turnrate as the Vor'cha and more hull
-it has 10 console slots instead of the regular 9
is this supposed to be a "plus one" ship?*
I like this idea, a console similar to the "photonic shockwave" torpedo would be good, a torpedo with Charged Particle Burst for example.

I think a variable geometry BoP is perfectly doable however. The Garumba can switch modes at will. I don't see why a BoP couldn't raise or lower it's wings for siege mode or normal attack.

The problem the K'vort presents however is we've really got no idea just how distinct from the B'rel it is sccalewise. It's only been refered to on screen once that I know of, and I think that was in DS9 in an Ocudagram. Both ships that are alleged to be B'rel or K'vort have changed sizes dramaticly over the course of TNG and DS9, and in the movies even Kruge's Bird of Prey has been many, many sizes. When we first see it, at absolutely dwarfs a freighter, but when hanging opposite Enteprise, is very much dwarfed in turn. Then in IV we see it utterly dwarf a whaling ship, yet were it that big when it landed, it wouldn't have fit into Golden Gate Park without flattening trees and leaving much larger footprints.

Now, if you fly B'rels in a "wings up" position by a Galaxy, it's pretty close to the "accepted" K'vort size from TNG, and the wingspan is greater than that of an Excelsior saucer, making it clearly much, much larger than a movie era BoP, of which Chang's was the inspiration for the enhanced cloak. If anything, I'd say the B'rel R is a mish-mash of Chang's BoP and the K'vort. But with estimated on screen lengths ranging from 50 to 700 meters, there's no "right" and "wrong" size for a B'rel/K'vort. Indeed, many of the supposed sources like Encyclopedia and Fact Files are more attempts at retconning this than something intended by the producers.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
03-25-2012, 06:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebeneezergoode
The problem the K'vort presents however is we've really got no idea just how distinct from the B'rel it is sccalewise. It's only been refered to on screen once that I know of, and I think that was in DS9 in an Ocudagram. Both ships that are alleged to be B'rel or K'vort have changed sizes dramaticly over the course of TNG and DS9, and in the movies even Kruge's Bird of Prey has been many, many sizes. When we first see it, at absolutely dwarfs a freighter, but when hanging opposite Enteprise, is very much dwarfed in turn. Then in IV we see it utterly dwarf a whaling ship, yet were it that big when it landed, it wouldn't have fit into Golden Gate Park without flattening trees and leaving much larger footprints.

Now, if you fly B'rels in a "wings up" position by a Galaxy, it's pretty close to the "accepted" K'vort size from TNG, and the wingspan is greater than that of an Excelsior saucer, making it clearly much, much larger than a movie era BoP, of which Chang's was the inspiration for the enhanced cloak. If anything, I'd say the B'rel R is a mish-mash of Chang's BoP and the K'vort. But with estimated on screen lengths ranging from 50 to 700 meters, there's no "right" and "wrong" size for a B'rel/K'vort. Indeed, many of the supposed sources like Encyclopedia and Fact Files are more attempts at retconning this than something intended by the producers.
Considering the B'rel as it's used in this game is based on the description in the Encyclopedia, meaning small =B'rel, I'd say we can just as easily use that for "large = K'vort".
And while we only saw the K'vort on scree in "Yesterday's Enterprise" I think there is something to consider here:
In that universe everything looked like it does in the Prime Universe with a few minor exceptions.
The Galaxy class lacks any exterior changes so why should the K'vort of this universe look any different, particularly scalewise?
So the 300 meter length and roughly 350 meter width would work perfectly IMO, particularly since we know the only appearance where the large BoPs were presumed to be larger for a while turned out to be a misunderstanding, as "our" Suricata proved:

http://www.suricatafx.com/?p=274#more-274

so I'd say the scale is pretty clear.

*EDIT: that the wings be fixed in combat (in a setting between the "up" of the small ships out of combat and the "down" in combat) would also set the two ships apart and there's the obvious proble that the motors that would have to move thos gigantig wings would have to be equally massive too, so there'd be a lot of space and weight saved for something more useful.
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