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# 1 Torpedo: High Yeild vs. Spread
04-16-2012, 08:03 AM
Firstly, which is better to use against a single target.
The AoE of Torpedo Spread or the High Yeild Torpedo?

If I wanted to hit multiple targets Torp Spread is obvious choice.

But which is best one on one?
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# 2
04-16-2012, 09:05 AM
HY ofcourse. But since the single target dmg of spread is just a little bit lower than HY, go for spread.

there has been a calculation for it, but i can't find it anymore. Until nobody has proof otherwise, and is willing to post it here, go for spread.

PS: be careful, u aggro stuff easily with spread!
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# 3
04-16-2012, 09:15 AM
Spread is pointless 90% of the time... in both pve and pvp.

In pvp its fine for controlling spam I guess... but lacks any killing power and you are lucky enough to land torps on one person with out a shield facing let alone 2.

In PvE you will draw argo on all the things you don't want to draw argo on... don't be the spreader that pulls tac cubes and gets one shot by gates that would have ignored you.

Also HY single target dmg IS MUCH higher. One you get an extra dmg hit...2 they all hit 20% higher. 3... if your a tac or a sci with sensor scan those higher base numbers translate into MASSIVE crits.

Yes Spread is usable where it was once junk... still HY is better in every situation I can think of. The first change to spread made it much better then HY... it has since been corrected and works as it should. Really outside of spam control I don't see the point.
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# 4
04-16-2012, 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Spread is pointless 90% of the time... in both pve and pvp.

In pvp its fine for controlling spam I guess... but lacks any killing power and you are lucky enough to land torps on one person with out a shield facing let alone 2.

In PvE you will draw argo on all the things you don't want to draw argo on... don't be the spreader that pulls tac cubes and gets one shot by gates that would have ignored you.

Also HY single target dmg IS MUCH higher. One you get an extra dmg hit...2 they all hit 20% higher. 3... if your a tac or a sci with sensor scan those higher base numbers translate into MASSIVE crits.

Yes Spread is usable where it was once junk... still HY is better in every situation I can think of. The first change to spread made it much better then HY... it has since been corrected and works as it should. Really outside of spam control I don't see the point.

All 3 Elite STFs do have a need for some level of spam control.

CSE: BoPs / Raptors / Neg'vars
ISE: Mass of Spheres
KASE: Probes

On top of these, all three will see these enemies clumped together and moving directly toward the player, an Escort with CSV can easily strip the shield facing off of multiple targets and follow it with TS.


On ISE in particular 2-3 AoE focused Escorts can make really quick work of the mass of spheres.


Otherwise, I agree with you.
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# 5
04-23-2012, 03:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Husanak View Post
Spread is pointless 90% of the time... in both pve and pvp.

In pvp its fine for controlling spam I guess... but lacks any killing power and you are lucky enough to land torps on one person with out a shield facing let alone 2.

In PvE you will draw argo on all the things you don't want to draw argo on... don't be the spreader that pulls tac cubes and gets one shot by gates that would have ignored you.

Also HY single target dmg IS MUCH higher. One you get an extra dmg hit...2 they all hit 20% higher. 3... if your a tac or a sci with sensor scan those higher base numbers translate into MASSIVE crits.

Yes Spread is usable where it was once junk... still HY is better in every situation I can think of. The first change to spread made it much better then HY... it has since been corrected and works as it should. Really outside of spam control I don't see the point.
Not sure about the above... based on Aug 2011 patch notes,
Quote:
Significantly increased damage - damage is 85% of the equivalent ranked High Yield torpedo.
I tried to look for any newer torp spread damage revisions but failed to find any. The latest torp spread damage analysis thread I found was here: http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=239389

So, unless I'm missing something, TS gives up 15% of its equivalent HYT damage for enhanced AoE damage burst. For STF's, this is a very good trade given how often Borg ships spawn togehter. For PVP, HYT is a slightly better, especially when backed by target shield subsystems. Both HYT and TS have their own strengths and weaknesses.
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# 6
04-23-2012, 05:29 PM
Yes I think 85% is about right.

I don't have the game in front of me to check, but if someone else does here's how to get the numbers:

0) Equip a torpedo launcher. (Note: it doesn't matter if you has TS or HY slotted)
1) Go to a system map (i.e. not sector space and not ground)
2) Press P
3) Select the ability to launch a single torpedo (I think it's "Launch _____ Torpedo")
4) Scroll down in the description. No matter what BOFF abilities you have slotted, it should provide:
- Unmodified DPS
- TS1 DPS per target
- TS2 DPS per target
- TS3 DPS per target
- HY1 DPS
- HY2 DPS
- HY3 DPS

Note: you can do the same to evaluate CSV and CRF.
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# 7
04-23-2012, 06:50 PM
Husa (if I may call him that)

Is talking about when spread 1st came out it was "bugged" and critted like something that crits alot. it was fixed.
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# 8
04-25-2012, 05:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by corgatag
I don't have the game in front of me to check, but if someone else does here's how to get the numbers:
Tested with a Standard White Mk XII Quantum Torp

Unslotted Damage: 3342 (393 DPS)

Base Slotted Damage: 4830 (568 DPS)
(with Weapons Training 9 and Projectile Weapons 9)


** Damage Numbers by Skill **

Base Slotted Damage: 4830

with TS3: 2848 x4 = 11392 (Max 5 Targets)
with TS2: 3330 x3 = 9990 (Max 4 Targets)
with TS1: 4303 x2 = 8606 (Max 3 Targets)
with HY3: 3560 x4 = 14240
with HY2: 4163 x3 = 12489
with HY1: 5378 x2 = 10756

** Best Damage versus 1 Target, in descending order: **

HY3: +194.82% of Base Slotted Damage
HY2: +158.57% of Base Slotted Damage
TS3: +135.86% of Base Slotted Damage
HY1: +122.69% of Base Slotted Damage
TS2: +106.83% of Base Slotted Damage
TS1: +78.18% of Base Slotted Damage



Obviously, Spread attacks are ALWAYS better if you have more than one foe in your 90' torpedo arc.

However the damage can really start to skyrocket with Spread attacks if enemies are tightly clustered together (to stack up splash damage). Unfortunately splash damage is only really applicable in a few limited situations, since it requires ships to be very close together - within 300m of each other to see any benefit. The most common real-game examples of this will include fighters, probes, and anything you've bunched up with a Gravity Well.


Note also that:

(i) The more tightly bundled your foes are, the higher the damage numbers will rise - the torpedo explosion AoE is only 300m wide and splash damage drops off linearly - so a ship sitting 75m away will get 75% of the normal explosion damage, 150m will get 50%, etc.

(ii) Each HY powers is EXACTLY 1.25 times the damage of the same-tier TS power versus one target.

(iii) Moving from HY2 to HY3 or TS2 to TS3 is a slightly higher damage increase than moving from HY1 to HY2 or TS1 to TS2.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stacking Other Buffs

Using Tactical Team grants a buff to "Projectile Weapons" which increases damage slightly (approx an extra 2.8% for me - varies very slightly from 2.79 to 2.81 which is probably due to rounding).

** Numbers with Tactical Team 1: **

Normal slotted damage: 4965

with TS3: 2928 x4 = 11712
with TS2: 3423 x3 = 10269
with TS1: 4423 x2 = 8846
with HY3: 3660 x4 = 14640
with HY2: 4279 x3 = 12837
with HY1: 5529 x2 = 11058


Using Attack Pattern Omega grants a flat damage buff. This gets applied against your standard slotted damage AFTER skills are applied... so if you use both Tactical Team 1 and APO1, Tac Team 1 raises your damage by buffing your projectile weapons skill, then APO1 grants you 115% of this (already increased) base damage.

The upshot is that you'll get more damage than you'd expect.

An example of this multiplicative damage stacking with real numbers:

+ TS3 (by itself, 0 buffs): 11392 "standard" damage
+ TS3 with TT1 (+PW Skill): 11712 [an extra + 2.81% of standard]
+ TS3 with APO3 (+ Damage): 14220 [an extra +24.82% of standard]
+ TS3 with both TT1 + APO3: 14616 [an extra +28.30% of standard]


Basically, make sure you have Tac Team running whenever you fire off your other damage buffs... it'll give your torps a little extra "Oomph".

----------------------------------------------------

TL;DR version:

+ Stack your buffs (nothing new here)

+ Take HY over TS only if you need to damage one thing at a time. (This rules out a lot of roles in endgame PvE, eg STFs with Kittomer probes, Kang attack waves, and Nanite Spheres - but HY will usually be quicker at killing single big targets like Tac Cubes and Structures)
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# 9
04-16-2012, 10:41 AM
Spread is good for drawing aggro, but high-yield is best against a single target.
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# 10
04-16-2012, 10:56 AM
Thanks, I suspected as much.
In a lot of builds I have seen people going for Spread over HY and if its PvE and I want to avoid agro I couldnt see why!

Further question, again which is better for PvE STF's
Cannon Scatter Volley or Cannon Rapid Fire?

Thanks again
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