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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 1 How to make PvP accessible?
05-17-2012, 03:45 PM
my contribution to the suggestion-spam initiated by Gozer's thread:

Contrary to popular belief, I dont see a need for "revolutionary" changes.
I think the downsides of sto's pvp are overemphasized. At the end of the day we like it the way it is - otherwise we would not be here.
For my part, competitive pew pew in space is the best thing about sto by far (have not been in sector space for weeks)


Fancy new maps, races, skills (and what not) won't fundamentally raise pvp activity in the long run!
It's not like men are not interested in pen*s comparison anymore but the distance between "pro" and "noob" is constantly getting bigger (repels newcomers).
To increase commercial relevance of pvp I think it's necessary to improve accessibility

There is a reason why popular pvp games have "noob dedicated environments" and since there apparently are only a few players capable of suffering [...] I'd like you to share your thoughts and suggestions on how to make sto's pvp beginner-friendly (for cryptic's sake: resource-efficient and practicable suggestions, please)
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 2
05-17-2012, 03:46 PM
yep "Pro" = loser in most cases

Noob means "someone who isn't a loser"
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 3
05-17-2012, 06:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollvax
yep "Pro" = loser in most cases

Noob means "someone who isn't a loser"
I'm afraid you are not getting my point
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 4
05-17-2012, 06:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Hetzer
I'm afraid you are not getting my point
who's that nice chick clown ***** in ur avatar O.O

^^
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 5
05-17-2012, 07:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Hetzer
my contribution to the suggestion-spam initiated by Gozer's thread

I think the downsides of sto's pvp are overemphasized.
At the end of the day we like it the way it is - otherwise we would not be here.
For my part, competitive pew pew in space is the best thing about sto by far (have not been in sector space for weeks).

Fancy new maps, races, skills (and what not) won't fundamentally improve pvp activity in the long run!
It's not like men are not interested in p3n*s comparison anymore but the distance between "pro" and "noob" is constantly getting bigger (repels newcomers).
To increase commercial relevance of pvp I think it's vital to improve accessibility.

There is a reason why popular pvp games have "noob only environments" and since there apparently are only a few players capable of suffering until they know the ropes (..) feel free to post your thoughts or suggestions on how to make sto's pvp beginner friendly (for cryptic's sake: resource-efficient suggestions, please)
Step one shoot PVE in the face. Replace it with something that's actually capable of downing a facing if your balancing shields. Enemies should not only do dps, but use resistance powers like players, at least chaining emergency power to shields. This will get players more acclimated to the pvp environment before stepping into pvp by forcing players to not have totally fail builds. Not only this but it will get them used to things not dying just because they showed up.

Step Two, make open pvp zones. This gets you int he smaller more intimate fights, where you don't have to worry about advanced tactics, and be more focused on shield tanking one guy at a time etc.

Step 3, Non Arenas, and non crappy crap and holds. (ie you can have cap and hold.. however, the points should flip in 30 seconds not 90.. and should be spread out, so you can't just roll from one point right into the other in seconds flat if the cryptic wants to go for super bonus points, make each point have perks assigned to it for holding it, as well as perks for Attackers) there should be Escort Missions, "Bomb" (ie assault) missions, as well as Capture the Flag in addition to Arena, and Capture and hold. More game play variety means people will find the match type that suits their strengths as a player. And also because of more variety, means more people will naturally try it.

Step 4, make it possible to que for more than just 3 matches at a time. Whoever coded this current limitation I hope has since been fired. This is going to be especially critical for the coming pvp rebuild.

Step 5, rewards only for winning, so everyone tries to win. This is actually one of the most grievous offenses of the current pvp system is the guys that do want to learn are being held down by well.. those that I not so affectionately call the Faceroller community who's there just for the dlitithium.. (which they don't even need) The Facerollers won't bother queing cause they never win, and the guys that want to learn? They'll be there every time.

Step 6, give us back our unlimited "pvp dailies". If people can earn Dilith quickly via pvp (and by winning) they'll do it. This gets more people into the ques and dilutes the overall pvp veteran strength. This will greatly decrease the odds of a pug running into a premade without having a need for que seperation, as well as dilutes vet strength so the odds of an entire veteran random team being thrown together well randomly against a bunch of newbies.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 6
05-17-2012, 07:11 PM
Yes, and lets first add a IDLE Penalty please. lol and dont allow shuttles! :@
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 7
05-17-2012, 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
Step one shoot PVE in the face. Replace it with something that's actually capable of downing a facing if your balancing shields. Enemies should not only do dps, but use resistance powers like players, at least chaining emergency power to shields. This will get players more acclimated to the pvp environment before stepping into pvp by forcing players to not have totally fail builds. Not only this but it will get them used to things not dying just because they showed up.
I generally agree with this sentiment. PvE in this game is easily among the most unchallenging PvE in any MMO I've played in recent times; and I've played many aside from STO to varying degrees. Now I will give the devs some credit--they have seemingly tried to introduce some strategic mechanics with some of their end-game space PvE; and admittedly, I don't know what engine they're using, and thus the limitations they may face in that regard. But even so, the PvE is pretty simple and hardly requires even moderate levels of competence to successfully complete.

Unfortunately, there are many, many players who still fail miserably at PvE in STO nevertheless. I tend to pug PvE more often than not, and it's amazing to me how many players utterly fail at grasping some of the simplest mechanics. I really don't understand it either; I mean, I always felt WoW's PvE was pretty easy to grasp too, and the AI scripting in that game, as far as end-game content goes, was significantly more complex and challenging than STO's.

I don't consider myself a pro or hardcore PvE'er by any means; I usually tend toward PvP in most MMOs I play... so it really boggles me how this playerbase seems to be so consistently incompetent.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 8
05-17-2012, 07:23 PM
If their game engine is so poor that they can't program pve to be more than just space bar only is required, then they need to scrap the game and get an engine that they can actually work with.

I suggest remaking sto with Unreal Engine 3. There's nothing it can't do, and do well.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 9
05-17-2012, 07:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mavairo
If their game engine is so poor that they can't program pve to be more than just space bar only is required, then they need to scrap the game and get an engine that they can actually work with.

I suggest remaking sto with Unreal Engine 3. There's nothing it can't do, and do well.
Unreal probably isn't the best choice for an MMO--or at least, it probably wouldn't by my first choice for an MMO engine--and having spent my entire last semester in level design using Unreal's engine, I can tell you the baseline AI is one of the worst aspects of the engine. This is not to say you cannot effectively script and 'reprogram' the base AI to be much better; but working with AI was one of the worst things about Unreal in my experience; that and build times.

Hopefully Unreal 4 will be much better of an engine; not that 3 is terrible--there are many good things about it (particle system, node-based materials and kismet, etc.).

It seems the engine they're using is an in-house engine called Cryptic Engine? Not familiar with it. Although, I will say that there are many things about the environments in STO that tend to remind me of Unreal as far as environments go.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 142
# 10
05-17-2012, 09:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by H.Hetzer
[i]At the end of the day we like it the way it is
The message Gozer has posted is that the majority of players do not like it the way it is. The minority is in fact so low, that it would not affect the game if PVP were removed. Accessibility for beginners is a good start but wont be enough. Gozer is hinting to some larger drastic changes.
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