Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 1 Kinetic Damage and Crew
06-04-2012, 11:00 PM
Why does anyone join Starfleet when 1 torpedo hit to your ship will full shields can wipe out or your crew? Take a Carrier... 3000 Crew... "Captain, incoming torpedo... Direct hit to the shields, no damage. Unfortunately we lost 1500 crew to casualties."

Does this sound familiar to you?

I think shields should affect crew casualties unless you are using something that ignores the shields or has a chance to ignore the shields like transphasics, harpengs or theta radiation and then only when the proc happens... In other words, the amount of shields on your ship should have a direct effect to the impact of how it affects crew.

Thoughts? Please, constructive feedback... (aka, no "Thats dumb", {clicks post})
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 2
06-04-2012, 11:11 PM
You bring up a good point. I think this is one of a few things that make PVP not seem like Trek, and therefore why most ppl don't pvp. Make PVP feel like trek, ppl will play.

Related to this: tac team insta-rebalance which basically completely nerfs torpedoes.

Also, why can ships out run torpedoes even without evasive??? All normal torpedoes flight speeds need to be increased to or near har'peng flight speed. This woudl allow for ppl to actually use torps in pvp to hit weak/down shield facing before the afore mentioned tac team re-balances...maybe.

Another thing, why do shields at even 1% almost completely absorb torpedoes? lower the shields, the higher the chance there should be of penetration. I know there already is some, but it needs to be raised.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 3
06-04-2012, 11:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Orig_Jean_Luc_Picard
Why does anyone join Starfleet when 1 torpedo hit to your ship will full shields can wipe out or your crew? Take a Carrier... 3000 Crew... "Captain, incoming torpedo... Direct hit to the shields, no damage. Unfortunately we lost 1500 crew to casualties."

Does this sound familiar to you?

I think shields should affect crew casualties unless you are using something that ignores the shields or has a chance to ignore the shields like transphasics, harpengs or theta radiation and then only when the proc happens... In other words, the amount of shields on your ship should have a direct effect to the impact of how it affects crew.

Thoughts? Please, constructive feedback... (aka, no "Thats dumb", {clicks post})
The crew factor is kind of poorly implemented IMO.

It's only seems to slow down how fast your hull heals and there's no real way to make thier recovery go faster.

Again, IMO, the Science Team Buff should speed that up, since it covers both Science and Medical factors in the game.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 4
06-04-2012, 11:24 PM
Crew that are "lost" aren't dead. They're just casualties, most of whom are still alive.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 5
06-05-2012, 04:47 AM
even if they are casualties, there are too many injured when shields are full. Crew used to affect nearly every system; reducing the power/effectiveness of them when injured. No more. Also a reason pvp doesn't fell very Trek-y.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 6
06-05-2012, 05:41 AM
I merely find the ease at which crew dies is to out of proportion for the health of my ship in general.
Full shields, full hull and I lose half in a single volley of torpedo strikes?
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 7
06-05-2012, 06:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Crew that are "lost" aren't dead. They're just casualties, most of whom are still alive.
Crew that is Orange are injured, crew that are grey are dead (causualties). Either way the amount injured or dead is too high from torpedo hits. If crew was affected this way in cannon, the federation (or any organization in Trek for that matter) would be wiped out in just a few encounters.

How many episodes did you see where a couple of torpedo (or any type of fight) wiped out over half the ship crew? Voyager would have ended in the first season if that were the case and there wouldn't have been anyone left to get the ship home unless the crew were like rabbits and the children grew like jem'hadar...
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 8
06-05-2012, 06:41 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Orig_Jean_Luc_Picard
Crew that is Orange are injured, crew that are grey are dead (causualties). Either way the amount injured or dead is too high from torpedo hits. If crew was affected this way in cannon, the federation (or any organization in Trek for that matter) would be wiped out in just a few encounters.

How many episodes did you see where a couple of torpedo (or any type of fight) wiped out over half the ship crew? Voyager would have ended in the first season if that were the case and there wouldn't have been anyone left to get the ship home unless the crew were like rabbits and the children grew like jem'hadar...
Well, causalties doesn't mean "dead", necessarily. Anyone out of commission is a casualty.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 9
06-05-2012, 07:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathan99
Well, causalties doesn't mean "dead", necessarily. Anyone out of commission is a casualty.
Well, consider a ship where the entire crew is "out of comission" by two torpedo hits. How can it still do all the stuff it can do?

The crew system is in a pretty broken state since pretty much the beginning. It's almost entirely irrelevant in actual gameplay. If it wasn't, I suppose ti would have already been fixed, but since it's mostly for cosmetic effect (and passive hull and subsystem repair rate no one is really relying on anyway), it wasn't.

The logical way it should probably work would be to kill x % of the crew or x crew, whichever is lower. So giant carriers don't lose people by the hundreds or thousands from torpedo hits, and tiny escorts and raiders don't get depopulated by a lucky hit. Factoring in shields doesn't even matter at this point, just this tiny basic would need to work first before we can think about active shields reducing the effect fruther, or basing the "x" on, say, percentage of hulll damage taken.
Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 10
06-05-2012, 07:36 AM
A couple of other things:

1) Torpedoes: Around oct-nov of 2011 (just before season 5) torpedoes got a temporary spread-buff that many klingon pvp-er's cried endlessly about. I, however, was not too upset, as one can avoid torp-spread with evasive, etc, and the buff made pvp seem MUCH more Trek-y. It was *arguably* *slightly* OP, but the "fix" was waaay over-reactionary in the nerf direction.

2) Does tac team still give attack buff? I can't remember. I know it used to, and it was at least partially based on crew level.

3) tac team fix ideas that would also go a long way to improving pvp.
a) slow the shield reinforce rate.
b) cap the total reinforcement tac team can give to a particular facing (say ~<=20% of total shield strength can be transferred via tt )
c) re-instate or increase the attack buff from TT (tie it to crew strength)
d) combo of above.

Take a look at Star Trek legacy repair/damage mechanics. The UI sucked, but in that game you really *felt* like you were in an epic battle, with nacelles getting blow off, etc, specific systems taking damage, and having to choose between them as to how to focus repair efforts. And repairs were never instant...but that goes to the fact this STO is just a generic MMO engine w/ a ST skin...


I think the current rumors of a completely new PVP engine are, once again, over-reactionary, and will probably only compound the problem or introduce completely new ones, if true. IMHO, the current engine does have flaws that can never be completely fixed, being as it is an engine designed for an completely different genre of RPGMMO with a Trek skin. However, I think there are relatively small (compared to totally new PVP engine/gear) fixes that could be done to make the current engine work better than now, and increase PVP interest in the short term. This would allow for more time to be spent on real fixes, esp IF that ultimately does require a new PVP engine. Rushing out a completely new PVP engine is probably THE WORST option available, but what I expect from he who has been anointed to "save PVP". Isn't he the same who "fixed" Cure Ground by erecting a silly force field as a temp fix for AI problem that is now permanent fixture? Forgive me if I am pessimistic on PVP actually being fixed.
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